Broadway Specs

[asphix]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061031-8112.html

The point of this post isn't to get into an argument over which console will win, if the Wii will be a hit or not, or even if it will suceed or fail. It's to discuss what people think of what ammounts to an underpowered release of a follow-up console in relation to what has been seen in the past.

Check out this great blog by an editor on Ars Technica for some more insight into the issue: http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/10/22/5703

Again, I'm not going to even touch on whether the Wii will be a hit, succeed, fail or which place they will finish in at the end of the day. No one knows for sure and this information doesn't do anything but add to speculation. However, I will comment on what this means to me personally.

I'm excited about the possibilites of the Wii, but I cant help but think about what the Wii could have been had the horsepower related hardware seen the same amount of attention as the interface related hardware. I've seen every argument in the book; for and against. Feel free to express your argument if you wish. Even in light of the very legit "how much processing power is required to render mario?" arguments, I cant help but speculate upon what sort of games we'd see, and what sort of freedom developers could explore had they given the machine some more polygon pushing potential.

What do you guys think?

[SuperSaiyan4]

I think its overpriced heavily and secondly I think its ridiculous that Japan gets the 'better version' I mean whats the deal? Japan got the Panasonic Q which was a better version of the Gamecube that could play DVD's and they have gone and done it again!

[Rip]

This is really dissapointing, at least from the consumer standpoint when it comes to the hardware I would feel somewhat ripped off - but then again its hard to put a value on that innovative controller, and they need to make back R&D Somehow. I just can't imagine playing, 5 years from now, graphics that aren't much of an improvement over the gamecube for 'new' titles. Sad to see.

[asphix]

This is really dissapointing, at least from the consumer standpoint when it comes to the hardware I would feel somewhat ripped off - but then again its hard to put a value on that innovative controller, and they need to make back R&D Somehow. I just can't imagine playing, 5 years from now, graphics that aren't much of an improvement over the gamecube for 'new' titles. Sad to see.

Exactly. The other thing that sort of hits me as unsettling is when you open that box in a few weeks and dig into your new system, really you just paid $250 for a new controller and some online. When you look at it that way, it just doesn't feel right.

I'd like to know how much Nintendo is making off each console. I wish they had beefed up the console hardware wise. Even if it required them to sell it at $299 and net less of a profit. I wouldnt be surprised if they are scoring $50-$100 profit per unit currently.. (though this number is pulled out of the air and is most likely wrong). The gamecube is sold for under $100, and the controllers for the Wii will go for ~$60. Tack on wireless, costs for redesign, packaging and all that goodness and you're looking at a cost of $160 (my guess is it costs them considerably less than $99 to make the gcube right now, so for the Wii I think $100 to manufacture the actual box is a reasonable estimate) to $200 to manufacture.

I'm worried that the console will be great for a few months/years and then will start to lag behind. Low graphical capabilities works on the DS because portables are confined by different rules and expectations. Lower graphics in order to achieve higher battery life, and faster load time to stimulate that "power on and go" mentality are great trade offs. I'm not sure too many people will be happy they're saving $100 annually on electricity at the sake of graphical prowess, physics capabilities 3 years from now in an @ home environment. At home the ability to power on and go isnt weighed as heavily against technical capabilities. I know, nintendo is going for the casual market.. but I'm not a casual gamer most of the time ;)

Of course, if Nintendo really captures the market with this control scheme, in 3 years they could release a re-design of sorts.

I'm still considering taking thanksgiving week off from work though to get my game on :king:

[Rip]

The real question is exactly what the specs are, I mean there is a pretty good bit of wiggle room with the potential detailed specifications the wii has. Personally I'm....well...underwhelmed, especially considering the capabilities my 360 has given me for the past 6 months. Purportedly even if the 2-3x more powerful rumors are correct, considering its been what, 5 years since the gamecube - we're looking at 5 years for 2-3 times the performance increase? That makes poor moore's law look like a joke there, so we're sacrificing 4 of those years just to develop the motion sensing technology? Heck if i'm not mistaken sony's favorite company that sued them recently announced a chip that can do positioning and rumble at the same time as well.

[PMS Wedge]

The thing with comparing hardware, though, is that it's incredibly difficult to compare only one aspect and then call it a day. The CPU is only one part of the system, and it's better to look at the system as a whole.

Some stuff that people here haven't mentioned are form factor and power consumption. For starters, the Wii itself is tiny. I've spoken with a lot of people who don't seem to care about this, but I actually am thrilled. This means that when I go on business trips, or back home to visit my folks, the Wii is likely the first system I will think of taking with me. Additionally, the power saving features will *ideally* make it a much quieter system. I don't have to tell anyone who has a 360 how loud that thing is. It hums louder than my PC does, and I ALWAYS know when it's on.

I would gladly sacrifice extra horsepower for stuff like that. IMO, the 360 (and most likely, the PS3 too) is poorly designed as a consumer electronic device. It's loud, it eats up a lot of power (even when it's "off" it consumes electricity) and it's incredibly delicate. You can't keep it in an entertainment cabinet for fear of it overheating.

That's not to say I don't love my 360. I do, but I would love it more if 1) it was quieter 2) it was quieter and 3) if it wasn't so delicate.

With the way the Wii is shaping up, I am not too worried about these problems. Nintendo could very well prove me wrong though, but I hope not.

I could elaborate more on this (and probably talk for days) but alas I have to go home. :) Good topic though!

[Rip]

I cannot express how amazing bose quiet comfort 2 headphones are when you have constant noises like a 360, or my much louder 48dB fan in my PC. That and college environments are just loud to begin with. Oh well - we all have different environments and I can't say that I've ever noticed that my 360 was loud, I suppose i'm conditioned or something hehe.
The delicate issue is indeed an issue, but i don't think that the wii will not be delicate just because of its size. Exhibit a) Nintendo DS Lite. Its a great system, but i don't think its that sturdy either.
The taking power while off.....I agree that power consumption is indeed a factor people should think about this time around, but again if comparing to a PC the thing is minimal. I mean, take a look at the stuff you're probably testing in those machines at your work these days, the GPU alone takes up more power than a 360, and if the rumors on the G80 are correct you're looking at over twice the power usage in the GPU alone! (Thank goodness AMD and Intel are pushing lower power consumption in their flagship products.....thermal runaway ftl)
As for form factor, its definately a reason they couldn't cram the hardware in there, but I don't necessarily see it as a fair excuse either. I'm not dying for a tiny system, and while I'm not happy about the size of the PS3 either, having something the size of the gamecube would be perfectly fine for most users, although maybe shift the form factor to make it a better fit in a home theater situation. I may be the exception to the rule on this one, but I like the size of the 360 - its not huge, it looks decent, and I do like knowing its there (not necessarily the fan noise per say).
Indeed the rest of the specs for the system could make a huge difference in terms of the final result, but I also doubt that they will be huge enough to make up the very large, and very real gap between the 360 / PS3 and the wii. If a single core in the 360 can (and most likely eaisly will) destroy the CPU on the wii, that alone has some major physics / AI implications, especially considering some games are still CPU bound on the PC. Having said this though, things like additional memory for textures will make a huge difference in final visuals, but still - I don't think we're talking about the 256MB i'd like to see in there. The only certainty is that Nintendo will be raking in the money come release, and I can't help but worry that we're looking at a major ripoff in terms of hardware value alone. Its a good thing that enjoyment isn't proportional to hardware value, so I can only hope that Nintendo games this time around are as fun as the last several generations.

[asphix]

Great points. Its certainly a pros/cons type situation. The Wii brings some really interesting new features to the plate which have lots of potential.

One could argue that if you wanted a system to take on the road, you would buy a DS or the like. The size isn't much of a concern to me personally.. noise is a concern but not so much that I would be willing to sacrifice advanced physics and other features technical prowess brings to the plate.

Plus, the console may be small, but I think that crossbar is somewhere around 24-36"

As long as the games are fun the system will be a hit regardless of its size, power and all that other stuff. I just think the system could have offered a lot more fun potential with a stronger CPU and more memory (I dont remember what they're using for a GPU in there).

so I can only hope that Nintendo games this time around are as fun as the last several generations.

From what I'm hearing about Twilight Princess its the first Zelda since OoT that hits the mark. Actually, reports are saying that it may be better than OoT, though that may be boardering on the lines of blasphemy. I'm more concerned with 3rd party games. They'll be strong at first but with the technically limited hardware, developers may feel held back and the controller might not be enough to keep them there. It takes a lot more effort to utilize artistic direction to make a game look fantastic on limited hardware (Okami, Twilight Princess.. etc..)

[PMS Wedge]

The way I see it, though... I already have a 360, a PC and eventually, a PS3 for my high powered, advanced AI and physics types of games.

This is why I don't think it should be a major concern that the CPU is "underpowered." I have plenty of other options if I want a high powered CPU.

While I understand that most PCs draw more power than even a 360, I can't look at everything individually. My PC is on when my 360 is on. My 360 is still drawing power just being plugged in; it would be a relief to know that the power consumption will at least be a bit less having a Wii plugged in, as opposed to something that draws as much power as a 360 that is turned off. Every little bit helps when it comes to conserving power.

I live in a fairly quiet neighborhood (even though I live in a city), and only with two other people. When I am alone in the house, I can hear my 360 from another room (when there is a disc in the drive, spinning - otherwise it's not bad at all). I'm cringing at the thought of the PS3 - which I fear will be even noisier. If you're in a noisy environment it won't be as noticeable, but most people's homes are rather quiet.

I wasn't exactly dying for a tiny system, but I'm more than happy to make the tradeoff of horsepower for size. I have found that I'm completely in the minority in this, though. Maybe it's because I generally never find that horsepower makes games more fun; but a smaller size is something where I can reap the benefits right away (less space in my cabinet, easily transportable).

I do have a DS Lite and I take it with me everywhere, but it's nice to know that I can also transport a Wii fairly easily too (my slimline PS2 currently makes the longer trips with me). I have heard reports of the DS Lite cases cracking, but I haven't experienced it myself yet. As far as I'm concerned, the DS is an incredibly solid system. I have two regular DS's that somehow survive perfectly in my backpack (I'm not very careful with them... one doesn't even have a case), and a DS lite that goes with me everywhere in my purse - and I'm hoping/expecting the Wii to be just as solid.

Looking at the broader scope, as a consumer I appreciate the fact that I now have much more variety in what I can purchase. What's wonderful about this world is that I'm not limited to only buying one console; and thus I have much larger, higher powered 360 for playing my photorealistic games. I will also have a smaller, more compact Wii for playing things a bit differently; as a break from traditional gaming. There are people who can't afford or don't want to buy more than one... for them, they get to make a choice.

Nintendo selling the hardware for a profit already tells you that they're charging more than it's technically worth. Is this a "ripoff"? I wouldn't consider it so - we've gotten so accustomed to the console manufacturers practically begging us to buy their hardware that we feel a sense of entitlement. But I guess I see it differently - I don't really look at the machine i'm buying in terms of specs, but rather what opportunities it opens up for me.

If I wanted a machine with impressive specs, I'd upgrade my PC. ;-)

[H2OSilentCid]

If your talking about just the Broadway chip then you have to consider ATI's GPU that will be doing most of the rendering.

[SuperSaiyan4]

The way I see it, though... I already have a 360, a PC and eventually, a PS3 for my high powered, advanced AI and physics types of games.


Whats high powered? What advanced AI and physics? Actually what on earth are you talking about??

[KilloWertz]

Whats high powered? What advanced AI and physics? Actually what on earth are you talking about??

She was talking about the 360, PC, and PS3. She wasn't just talking about the PS3.