View Full Version : Marriage Equality
PMS Rain
10-25-2006, 08:26 PM
It's all over the news but I thought I should post it for those that don't watch/read/etc. but should still know. This article (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1550838-1,00.html), of many, is a good recap of the issue. I do want to note that, the decision of what to call "the rights" has not been made. It could end up "Same Sex Unions" (separate but equal [blah!]) or it could be full blown "Same Sex Marriage" depending on what the state legislature decides (crosses fingers)..... so... YAY!!!!!!!11
PMS Kahlo
10-25-2006, 08:34 PM
In Vermont it's called "Civil Unions"...
I hate ignorance. I support same sex marriages, my best friends mom is a lesbian. ^;^
Mr. Unwanted
10-25-2006, 08:37 PM
well i saw on the news about this in the morning and yeah
PMS Kahlo
10-25-2006, 08:42 PM
well i saw on the news about this in the morning and yeah..and yeah what? lol
Mr. Unwanted
10-25-2006, 08:49 PM
ohhh yeah i'm gay..lol
ohhh yeah i'm gay..lol
lmao.
Mr. Unwanted
10-25-2006, 08:53 PM
ummmm i'm not kidding
Doesnt matter
I support Same Sex marriages, its "natural" for everyone to make their own decisions, it doesnt have to be a boy or a girl, it can be whatever people want
I dont have a problem with les, or gays, until gays start hittting on me, then i get scared...
Buddy H2O
10-25-2006, 10:07 PM
ohhh yeah i'm gay..lol
the reason for vinx laughing is because ur ALL over girls ducky so i wouldn't take any offense to that.
BTW i honestly think this whole thing is just a waste of peoples time. It really is. Let people do what they wanna do as long as it doesn't hurt yourself or anyone. Yeah it might be offensive to other people but there are people who are racist out there who say white people cant be married to black people.(or any other race fitted in both spots) I mean its just stupid. I'm pretty sure this goes against at least one of the amendment but i don't really know those by heart lol so i cant be sure.
PMS Rain
10-25-2006, 10:15 PM
It’s comforting to see the support in here :)
It’s comforting to see the support in here :)
of course!!! :p
Night
10-25-2006, 10:41 PM
lol. well.
my half-bro in chicago is gay. and i have like 3 friends that are lesbian/gay.
i support same sex marraige..
but, i dont like that ppl are hitting on bush all the time about it. some people are highly catholic, and dont support it cuz of what the bible says.
dont get mad at me, its my opinion. kinda like my opinion on the war. im for it. honestly.
any problems, IM me, or PM me, or if you wanna have a nice, non-bloody/violent debate, im open.
thank you for your time.
Nick
Nokarot
10-25-2006, 11:54 PM
I dont have a problem with les, or gays, until gays start hittting on me, then i get scared...
Yeah.. basically thats how I feel. The whole world can be gay for all I care, but I'm straight, so dont try me.....vinx.
It sometimes gets on my nerves when its talked about all the time, though.. I think it should just be what it is, and mean its own thing to each individual.. "Equality", as the thread title says, is what's important.. Not Gay Pride flags or anti-gay religions. To each their own.. If only the world thought that.
Kal-El
10-26-2006, 12:22 AM
I hate ignorance. I support same sex marriages, my best friends mom is a lesbian. ^;^
It's not ignorance.
Who invented marriage? The church. So who do you think should decide what marriage is? the church. So who gives the state or who ever the right to go and force the church to allow something that's against their beliefs? NO ONE has that right.
I'm not a homophobe (my best friend is a lesbian), I just think it's wrong for someone or people to force others to change/go against their beliefs. I'm not even a religious person (I'm agnostic), but I believe in other people's right to believe in what they choose.
Same sex couples can have civil unions or what ever equivalent they want.
PMS Rain
10-26-2006, 01:13 AM
Hey Dex!
here you go.....
Marriage remained a strictly civil institution until about the mid 5th century AD. Around that time Augustine and others theosophised about marriage and the Christian Church started taking an interest in co-opting it.
...from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage) under Deffinitions, paragraph six.
Yeah so, first marriage had nothing to do with religion so let me be direct, it is ignroance. No one forces the church to do anything by the way, in Mass and NJ it's up to the church whether to marry same sex couples, but there are religions and churches that believe it's right and do. What the Marriage equality fight is about is the government recognizing it. The only forcing applied here would be from the laws around the world banning it. :o QED :o
PMS Agent
10-26-2006, 01:27 AM
So basically, I was born Catholic and so was my brother...I thought my mom was really Catholic (she went to a Catholic school when she was little), but it turns out she accepted my uncle on my dad's side even though he was gay. My dad even asked my mom before their wedding if she was ok with it and she said that she was marrying him for him and that it didn't matter if his brother was gay or not. =)
In Arizona, we have a propostion to ban gay marriage. I think it is completely ridiculous. People should marry whom ever they want to. This is a new time...we are suppose to be more open to things instead of being servely conservative. The US is suppose to as they say "be the land of the free" yet they don't allow the freedom to marry whom ever you please. Makes me wonder what this country is really based on.
So yeah...I support gay marriage =)
PMS Saphira
10-26-2006, 01:35 AM
It's a sensitive issue for both sides. Civil unions seem to be the best compromise. Gays and lesbians can committ to each other legally and be granted the same rights as a married couple, yet the term marriage is not used. The definition of marriage is a sensitive issue today, and many people (myself included) believe it to be specifically between a man and a woman. I can't say I support allowing gays and lesbians to committ to each other, but as long as you don't use the term marriage I won't stop you.
I Fully Support Same Sex Marriage,
And Like PMS Agent Said Above
Pencilposer
10-26-2006, 02:46 AM
Anyone who feels a deep connection should be allowed to be with that person, and have the rights that come with that connection. Hell, if you think about it, wouldn't allowing gay marriage help the view of marriage in this country anyway. There are so many divorces that marriage here is a joke. It really is not a matter of what you call it, thats not the main importance, It comes to the matter if people are comfortable knowing that homosexuals will have the same rights as they do. Sadly some can not accept that and that is why they use the guise of religion to rally for a call for a ban of gay marriage.
Jumper PMS
10-26-2006, 03:30 AM
I think gay marriage should be allowed :) Like agent said, we're supposed to be "the land of the free" and they restrict us.
It's much like the civil rights movement, just now instead of african americans fighting for rights it's gay people... much of the same things are happening with the way things progress..
Honestly I think this current fight is a bit more challenging than the African Americans, just because so many people morally believe homoesexuality is wrong... I used to. And my family does... but then I realized that people can't change, I couldn't change.. as much as I wanted to. Besides, why would I want a life like this? To be told that who I am is wrong and I can't have the same rights as everyone else and if my partner is dying in a hospital I wouldn't be able to see her? Yeah... who would want that? I didn't. and I tried to change.
But anyways, I got off topic.
I'm willing to accept civil unions to be honest, at least you get basically the same rights as married couples... It's a reasonable compromise in my opinion..
Just my two cents :D
PMS Anarchy
10-26-2006, 04:13 AM
Its now legal in NJ! WOOT
PMS Kahlo
10-26-2006, 04:27 AM
Slow pokes... it's been legal here for a while now. lol :P
Kal-El
10-26-2006, 12:56 PM
I think gay marriage should be allowed :) Like agent said, we're supposed to be "the land of the free" and they restrict us.
So in this "land of the free" you have the right to go into a church and say "hey I know you're God won't allow you to marry us, but I don't care. Marry us now or we'll fight to get the State to force you to go against your beliefs (Violating your right to that belief) and marry us."
Yes, it is the land of the free. You have rights, but so do others. Your rights end when another person's rights begin. You DO NOT have the right to over step those bounds. You DO NOT have the right to force people to do something that is against their beliefs.
Let's play a little what if game here.
What if the tables were turned. The church is gay. They only allow gay marriages. You're a religious person. Now would you like it if some straight couple came into your church and said "Hey I know it's against your religion, but I don't care. Marry us now, or I'll fight to get the state to violate your rights and force you to do so." How would you feel? I'm guessing you'd be pretty pissed off.
It's funny that in this "land of the free" a person's rights only exist when they benefit themselves. Other people's rights are rarely taken into consideration, as is illustrated in many posts in this thread.
The Constitution guarantees freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to a fair trial, freedom of religion, equal suffrage, and property rights. Such affirmations of human rights are the product of nearly four centuries of struggle and social progress aiming for a fair and just society, with its beginnings in 1634 when the first colonies in Maryland were founded on the basis of religious tolerance. However, some Americans attempting to exercise these fundamental human rights have been persecuted at various times throughout the country's history.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_States)
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship, and observance.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion)
Now I might have missed it, but I don't see where it says you have the right to force people to change their beliefs/religion to suit yourself. Oh that's right, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT!
Now to respond to Jennifer.
I have nothing against getting married in a church that FREELY allows it. The problem is, there's gay activists that are trying to overstep their boundaries and violate other people's rights by trying to have the state force the church into allowing gay marriages. THIS IS WRONG! As I've shown above people have a right to believe in what they want. If their belief is that their God doesn't want gays to marry in their church, then so be it. No one has a right to try and change that. Change religions if you want. You have the right to do that. Heck, start your own religion that allows gay marriage. I'm pretty sure you have the right to do that.
I have nothing against anyone, except those who try to put their own rights above those of others.
Vandal
10-26-2006, 12:58 PM
Score one for New Jersey.
Now we wait for the rest of America to get their act together.
PMS HateMaker
10-26-2006, 12:58 PM
PMS Jumper was very correct in saying that the struggle of Homosexuals for equal rights is like the Civil Rights movement, because it is exactly like that. Marriage does not have its origins in any church or religion, and the people who are trying to debate the issue on that point are sadly, misinformed. Historically, marriage is nothing more than a contract and can be entered into by 2 or more people (see, polygamy.) The fact that homosexuals are being denied these rights is due to nothing more than bigotry and prejudice.
Vandal
10-26-2006, 12:59 PM
PMS Jumper was very correct in saying that the struggle of Homosexuals for equal rights is like the Civil Rights movement, because it is exactly like that. Marriage does not have its origins in any church or religion, and the people who are trying to debate the issue on that point are sadly, misinformed. Historically, marriage is nothing more than a contract and can be entered into by 2 or more people (see, polygamy.) The fact that homosexuals are being denied these rights is due to nothing more than bigotry and prejudice.
and born again christians! lol
PMS HateMaker
10-26-2006, 01:07 PM
and born again christians! lol
Yes, but they're like that due to bigotry, prejudice, and ignorance (not saying ignorance in a mean way, but in the dictionary way: The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.. As a married person I can say unequivocally that gay people getting married has no effect on my marriage. I think Robin Williams says it best, "Why shouldn't they be allowed to be as miserable as the rest of us?"
Kal-El
10-26-2006, 01:10 PM
PMS Jumper was very correct in saying that the struggle of Homosexuals for equal rights is like the Civil Rights movement, because it is exactly like that. Marriage does not have its origins in any church or religion, and the people who are trying to debate the issue on that point are sadly, misinformed. Historically, marriage is nothing more than a contract and can be entered into by 2 or more people (see, polygamy.) The fact that homosexuals are being denied these rights is due to nothing more than bigotry and prejudice.
So get married outside of church. The point is people are trying to FORCE the CHURCH into letting them marry. Why? You nor anyone else has the right to force the church to do anything.
I've seen it many times, both on the news and in person. People picketing outside a church with signs reading "God Loves us all!" and "Let gays marry!" etc.
It's against that religion to allow gay marriage, so why violate their rights and try to force them into allowing it?
And I agree with Robin Williams. Just not inside a church (at least until the church FREELY allows it).
Pencilposer
10-26-2006, 01:11 PM
So in this "land of the free" you have the right to go into a church and say "hey I know you're God won't allow you to marry us, but I don't care. Marry us now or we'll fight to get the State to force you to go against your beliefs (Violating your right to that belief) and marry us."
Yes, it is the land of the free. You have rights, but so do others. Your rights end when another person's rights begin. You DO NOT have the right to over step those bounds. You DO NOT have the right to force people to do something that is against their beliefs.
Interesting indeed, but you do know that you can get married by a judge and not in a church right? Cause a good portion of religions do not allow for divorces, so when a divoriced person wants to get married, they go to city hall and do it. So I do not think gay marriage would infringe upon the church's right to practice what it wants. And here is another thing, CHURCHS CAN NOT CALL FOR A BAN ON GAY MARRIAGE!!! If they do, they will lose thier tax exemption. Hehe what a conundrum we find ourselves in.
PMS Rain
10-26-2006, 01:20 PM
Dex, you're doing research on the topic, but you're only doing half of the research you should be.
Yes, it is the land of the free. You have rights, but so do others. Your rights end when another person's rights begin. You DO NOT have the right to over step those bounds. You DO NOT have the right to force people to do something that is against their beliefs
The only boundaries being crossed are the ones separating church and state. Politicians are bringing their bibles to congressional meetings. The church is overstepping the marriage boundary. Like I said before, and even quoted Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage) (under definitions paragraph six), the church did not create marriage, it was civil institution regarding property before the church had anything to do with it.
There isn't and never will be anything forcing a church to marry gays. The church is a private organization, therefore they will forever have the right to refuse gays. Just like the boy scouts have that right to exclude gays. BUT, this is all as long as they remain private and aren't affiliated with public scenarios and organizations. This is where the boy scouts got into trouble. As long as a private organization doesn't receive help from the public or the government they remain "private" and can do (or refuse doing) as they please.
The problem is, there's gay activists that are trying to overstep their boundaries and violate other people's rights by trying to have the state force the church into allowing gay marriages.
"hey I know you're God won't allow you to marry us, but I don't care. Marry us now or we'll fight to get the State to force you to go against your beliefs (Violating your right to that belief) and marry us."
There ARE NOT, activists trying to force the churches to do anything. You are misinterpreting facts. No one is demanding the churches change their beliefs or go against them, we're demanding the churches take their "holy" grip off of our rights.
No one is forcing the church to do anything. The whole rights fight is about the government recognizing the marriages, NOT forcing the churches to recognize them. Dex, I'm sorry but get your facts "straight."
Spaztic
10-26-2006, 03:20 PM
It's not ignorance.
Who invented marriage? The church. So who do you think should decide what marriage is? the church. So who gives the state or who ever the right to go and force the church to allow something that's against their beliefs? NO ONE has that right.
Nobody's forcing the Church to allow something against their beliefs. Two people obviously do not need to join in marriage through a Catholic system. People of other religions get married. Atheists get married. The Church is a private organization and can apply its rules and ethics to its own people. But obviously, not everyone is Catholic----gay or straight, it doesn't matter. Therefore, marriage isn't just about the Church. To argue that the Church should get to decide the state rules of marriage because they established it is a weak argument considering Non-Catholics marry, the Church didn't establish rules of marriage for everyone, and state and religion are not joined in the US. The Church does not rule.
....Just some quick input.
Buddy H2O
10-26-2006, 04:01 PM
IMO this should be a national thing, not a state thing. I mean we have all these senseless laws that protect what? I honestly think people overlook the 2 words "Equal rights"
PMS Evil
10-26-2006, 04:06 PM
I literally just did a current event on this i think that everyone should have the right to marry whomever they liked to, no one at all should be shunned for the fact that they liek someone else, the rights u are born with our . "Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Hapiness" and i am positive that if they cant marry whom they liek thats not statisfying there pursuit. I gladly support this topic. I have a gay uncle btw, one of the smartest and brightest men i know. Although i think there should be a law that if u dont want to be "hit on" by a gay guy/girl. Then they shouldnt be able to
Its now legal in NJ! WOOT
indeed it is, thats exacttly where i live, its causign a contraversy in school.
PMS Rain
10-26-2006, 04:46 PM
Although I think there should be a law that if u don’t want to be "hit on" by a gay guy/girl. Then they shouldn’t be able to
This was cute, (not a come on hehe) but I thought I would address this idea. The problem with this is not everyone wears their orientation on their sleeve. There aren't any intentions of uncomfortably or someone's orientation in check. I get hit on by guys and I understand why, and I don't feel uncomfortable or in orientation jeopardy. I know what and who I am so it doesn't bother me. I understand that straight people have a problem with it for many reasons and we deal with the same thing when we get hit on. Ok, I don't know what the fear is of being perceived of as being gay, there's nothing wrong with it, and all you have to do is say, "actually, I'm straight" see, no harm no fowl. :o
Like I said, we deal with the same thing; it's unavoidable unless you wear your orientation on your sleeve. That would really be the only way of solving the problem and the solution ended with the gold Stars of David and pink triangles back in the holocaust. It's all about choice to wear what we want and that we're proud of what we are, no law can really fix this one, but being confortable and confident in what you are can. :o
Jumper PMS
10-26-2006, 04:47 PM
lol evil, I love you :)
But yes, Dex, people aren't trying to force churches to marry gay people, they just want the church to stand down on the fight, since they are, in fact, the biggest opposition we have to getting our rights because they have such a loud voice when it comes to things. I could give to whatevers if I could get married in a church, there ARE churches out there that will marry gay people. I'm fine with having a judge marry me. Whatever. :)
PMS HateMaker
10-27-2006, 01:09 AM
No where did I say it was "ok" for people to expect churches to marry homosexuals Dex, and nowhere did I imply that they should have to. Nor, I think did anyone else imply that. That's just ridiculous, what homosexual in their right mind would demand that? I know a lot of homosexuals and none of them would dream of having a church wedding. Not to say there aren't those that feel that way but I'm pretty sure they're an extreme minority. More people don't get married in churches than do.
Nokarot
10-27-2006, 01:36 AM
This thread was made for those who are in support of Marriage Equality to show their support.
I'm glad, Dex, that you truely believe in what you believe. You make valid points, and I respect your beliefs, whether I agree with them or not, BUT there is no reason to start a bickering/arguement/debate war on a touchy subject like this.
You have every right to believe in what you believe, but let the contant media, articles, supreme court, churches, whoever, do the argueing for you.. This is a friendly forum, where everyone comes in peace to share laughs and raise their flags together, not a war zone. If it bothers you that much, just stop opening the thread, please.. Same goes for everyone else in opposition.
PMS Agent
10-27-2006, 01:42 AM
/claps
Nicely put Nokarot
^_^
H2O Fate
10-27-2006, 05:38 AM
Ok my take is i actually don't care about same sex marriage. if it works and they are happy let them do it. I have more gay/lesbian friends then straight ones. One thing i've read is that most of the arguments against gay marriage is from the churches. saying "its against gods will" or some crap like that. But the U.S constitution states it as a SEPERATION of church and state. meaning churchs stay out of politics instead of forcing themselves into such matters which unfortunately is happening now. Also an argument of it is that if gay marriage is passed is that polygamy would be allowed which is kind of stupid. Seeing how if gay marriage is allowed it would only state marriage of one man to one man or one woman to one woman. not one man to multiple woman or one woman to multiple men. Anyway i'm pro gay marriage theres nothing wrong against it at all. I say make the church stay out of it. As well as those religious senators/congressmen. If they can suspend the habeus corpus ammendment *for residential aliens* then why can't they enact a gay marriage law?
Oh yeah. since when has it only been churches to marry individuals? Equality is all they ask for. i say give it to them. God doesn't discriminate or he wouldn't of made people with the choice to be gay or not.
Signed
Snatchd U. AKA Steven.
PMS Anarchy
10-27-2006, 06:47 AM
Well here is my two cents...Marriage is a sacred union between two people who love eachother, love does not know gender, it only knows that two people were brought together to live in happyness for the rest of thier lives. If this means two people of the same sex, can have that feeling that most people spend thier entire lives searching for, then let them. What would you say if you spent your entire life looking for that one person, then once you found them you were banned from engaging in that relationship publicly which is a normality. Its just a fact of life that many people are homophobic and thats quite undertandable, i also understand why people are so pessemistic about same sex marriage, but it doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed, because it is misunderstood. Peircings are misunderstood, but are allowed. Its a big controversial topic, but all in all...you cant stop love, law...or no law..
PMS Rain
10-27-2006, 09:33 AM
Well put Anarchy, it is a sick thing to have to fight for the right to love and have everything we're entitled to as loving human beings. I think the movie on my page on myspace puts the need for love pretty well, check it out....
Also an argument of it is that if gay marriage is passed is that polygamy would be allowed which is kind of stupid. Seeing how if gay marriage is allowed it would only state marriage of one man to one man or one woman to one woman. not one man to multiple woman or one woman to multiple men.
The only time I've heard polygamy come up is when the church says that it is one of the next steps along with marrying animals and inanimate objects. These ideas are really just for shock value, polygamy has nothing to do with Gay Marriage Equality and they won't affect each other. As far as I'm concerned, being the Libertarian I am, as long as there isn't a victim it's not a crime and said person has a right to do what they want.
KingNothing H2O
10-27-2006, 10:02 AM
Uggh, political stuff on here. This kinda thread starts nothing but trouble.
Genghis Is My Homeboy
10-27-2006, 10:42 PM
I was pretty excited about this. There are a lot of gay people in my school, and I am bisexual, and I think it's absolutely ridiculous that they would even ever consider banning gay marriage.