United States Debate

[KaRnAge]

Before I start I want to state the rules and brief you guys on what this is about.


The rules are simple don't flame anyone and don't say someone shouldn't say such a thing this is a debate topic over many subjects and many different views and I can't stand when people flame people because they don't agree with their views.

First Topic:
The U.S. and War
I know it's a very contrevirsal topic about why and what the U.S. is in Iraq and Afghanistan for but I thought that it would be good to debate about and see other peoples opinon. Personally being someone in the Army and joining Infantry I personally don't have a problem if the president sends off troops to country even if were not supposed to be involved if it's someone elses deal beacuse just like WWII and mostly every other war, I won't stand around and want to look at these country's like Germany in WWII and Africa now were all these people are getting slaughtered and not do anything about it. Were like the big brother on Earth which is a good thing and becomes a bad thing but if we have the biggest and best military then I think we should help people with their problems. If we didn't help out in WWII with the jews imagine how many more could've been killed or how much bigger Hitler's army could've been, this helps us in the long run also for people to not think or try to over run us. What do you guys think?


This is the first of many debate topics I hope, If the feedback is well enough I will either make a blog or keep this thread going every Sunday with a new debate topic we can talk about, I ask that nobody stay on the same topic after I have posted another one though.

Thank You,
Tyler Felder

[H2O Trogdor]

/me backs...away...from the thread...SLOWLY...

[KaRnAge]

/me backs...away...from the thread...SLOWLY...


Why?

[H2O Hamlet]

Politics is a hard topic to discuss. Many people don't have the ability to listen to others ideas. Debates like this often lead to arguments and you start to think about people differently. Not everyone does this or feel this way, but sometimes it's just best to stick away from topics like this. I mean, this is a gaming community and most people are here to have fun. Topics like this can often be that buzz kill- so most people "walk away" like jkl890 stated.

While I think discussing politics is very important for Democracy and all Americans should participate and be open to it, it just isn't that easy and tension is created. I know during the Election time I was kind of a big poster on those topics, and I said somethings that got others annoyed with me. Some people agreed, but Obama lovers didn't. That's just the way it goes, different ideologies and views of how a Government should be ran. I'm conservative, and so are 50% of the other Americans. It just so happens that there is just as large of a number that disagrees, and that side won the election. Point being, some people didn't like what I had to say- and hopefully months later they've forgotten, which I'm sure they have; I just don't want to go down that route again. I love PMS|H2O- and debates that involve politics I'll leave to "real life" and on campus and at conferences and in the streets of my city. Not the lovely people I game and have fun with. I'd hope they'd see past it and still love Hamlet for Hamlet, but just in case I too will walk away from this thread.

But I will say that I support our troops and I appreciate all those that serve under our military. You all have my respect and you are all in my prayers daily.

And if I were to get involved in this topic, I'd briefly state that I think our National Security is one of the most important and essential things that our Government should be involved with. It is one of the few things I personally think I should be taxed for, per the Constitution. So if preserving our safety and democracy means going to war so that few can die to save many (and yes few means thousands, rather than millions)- than I understand the justification for war. Clearly democracy and finding a peace agreement is better- but often times that option isn't available and action must me taken. I'm not for going to war for the spoils or for gains, nor to show that we're the most powerful military in the world (which we are)... I'm only for going to war if our National Security is at all threatened, if Americans are in danger, and no other peace negotiations are making progress to radical oppression.

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing...

[H2O Creation]

i believe this is a bias and narrow minded thread and i also shall back away slowly....

[PMS Solincia]

i believe this is a bias and narrow minded thread and i also shall back away slowly....

Everyone has their opinions....

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to my death, your right to say it" ~ Voltare

War is sad. Violence is sad. I don't agree with it, I do agree with it. The band LIVE wrote a song that is quite appropriate.... "It's not a black and white world, to be alive I say the colours must be swirled and I believe, that maybe today... we will appreciate the beauty of gray".

It's a song about situations, and circumstances, and what you are willing to do for another. That no situation is one way or the other, there is always the gray area.

We don't know what truly is going on. We don't know who is telling the truth, who is lying, what the real circumstances are.

I have extreme respect for any man or woman of any nation who stands to defend their country--but I question, at times, the governments to send them to war.

But what is it to be a soldier? There are many soldiers, in many forms. From the humanitarian who fights to save lives from malnurishment, from disease. There are the doctors who create vaccines to fight what can't be seen. There are neighborhoods who fight the violence that seems to grow in their cities. There are teachers who fight to keep the peace in their classrooms. There are the policeman who fight the violence and put themselves in harms way to defend and protect their cities. There are the soldiers who defend our country.

But why do we need them is more the question sometimes. What is it that is within mans heart and soul that creates this erruption of violence. That is where the question is to me. Why must humanity be so violent that men and woman must switch modes from mother, brother, sister, father, aunt, uncle, cousin, friend to soldier....

Like I said, there is no right or wrong answer... Every solution only brings about more questions. After all, why do we kill people who kill people... to prove that killing people is wrong?

[DejaVu PMS]

Everyone has their opinions....

"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to my death, your right to say it" ~ Voltare

War is sad. Violence is sad. I don't agree with it, I do agree with it. The band LIVE wrote a song that is quite appropriate.... "It's not a black and white world, to be alive I say the colours must be swirled and I believe, that maybe today... we will appreciate the beauty of gray".

It's a song about situations, and circumstances, and what you are willing to do for another. That no situation is one way or the other, there is always the gray area.

We don't know what truly is going on. We don't know who is telling the truth, who is lying, what the real circumstances are.

I have extreme respect for any man or woman of any nation who stands to defend their country--but I question, at times, the governments to send them to war.

But what is it to be a soldier? There are many soldiers, in many forms. From the humanitarian who fights to save lives from malnurishment, from disease. There are the doctors who create vaccines to fight what can't be seen. There are neighborhoods who fight the violence that seems to grow in their cities. There are teachers who fight to keep the peace in their classrooms. There are the policeman who fight the violence and put themselves in harms way to defend and protect their cities. There are the soldiers who defend our country.

But why do we need them is more the question sometimes. What is it that is within mans heart and soul that creates this erruption of violence. That is where the question is to me. Why must humanity be so violent that men and woman must switch modes from mother, brother, sister, father, aunt, uncle, cousin, friend to soldier....

Like I said, there is no right or wrong answer... Every solution only brings about more questions. After all, why do we kill people who kill people... to prove that killing people is wrong?

I have to say I completely agree with this although I myself will not get involved in this subject because most people here will not like what I have to say at all. I have a huge amount of respect for the men and women who serve our country and fight for our rights. I do not agree with this war however and some of the other things but that is as far as I will go into this discussion.
My views on war (all wars) and our government is probably drastically different than most here.

I hope that one day there will be no need for wars or a need to kill other people whether it be as a punishment for a crime or due to a war.

[KaRnAge]

The killing people to kill people who kill people was funny although true, Along with DejaVu I will agree that I don't agree with the war but we don't always know everything that is going on and I respect that if the president wants us someone were then its serious or its needed.

[ladychidori]

Everyone has their opinions....



We don't know what truly is going on. We don't know who is telling the truth, who is lying, what the real circumstances are.



That's EXACTLY it.

the main question that's been on my mind, (before i say this, let me say that i DO love president obama) is how can a president with no military experience step in and say we can cleanly break away from this war? i don't want america to be at war, but i don't see how setting a deadline to pull out ouf the afghan/iraq war is possible.

[KaRnAge]

Yeah I agree that I think that McCain would be better for the military part

[KillSwitchDani]

I am going to what H2O Creation and jkl did and back away slowly....

[Fury TNO]

Before I start I want to state the rules and brief you guys on what this is about.


The rules are simple don't flame anyone and don't say someone shouldn't say such a thing this is a debate topic over many subjects and many different views and I can't stand when people flame people because they don't agree with their views.

First Topic:
The U.S. and War
I know it's a very contrevirsal topic about why and what the U.S. is in Iraq and Afghanistan for but I thought that it would be good to debate about and see other peoples opinon. Personally being someone in the Army and joining Infantry I personally don't have a problem if the president sends off troops to country even if were not supposed to be involved if it's someone elses deal beacuse just like WWII and mostly every other war, I won't stand around and want to look at these country's like Germany in WWII and Africa now were all these people are getting slaughtered and not do anything about it. Were like the big brother on Earth which is a good thing and becomes a bad thing but if we have the biggest and best military then I think we should help people with their problems. If we didn't help out in WWII with the jews imagine how many more could've been killed or how much bigger Hitler's army could've been, this helps us in the long run also for people to not think or try to over run us. What do you guys think?


This is the first of many debate topics I hope, If the feedback is well enough I will either make a blog or keep this thread going every Sunday with a new debate topic we can talk about, I ask that nobody stay on the same topic after I have posted another one though.

Thank You,
Tyler Felder

OK I am going to back away, as I do not wish to upset anyone.... However I will leave you with just a couple of thoughts (because I agreed with you on another topic I will afford you that time)

Although we are allies of the United States and we have done some good work.... I do not always agree with what the US government does or certain policies.

As far as WW2 goes im skipping over much of that, but I would say that you should look at the deciding factor of WW2 and that was Russia.

As far as having the Biggest and best Military... you have a vast military that has alot of resources available.... But look very closely at the British troops you serve with and sometimes under.... there is a difference.

and finally I leave you with a quote-

Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel . . . And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth.
Mark Twain

and another.....

I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in.
George McGovern

[k1d 650]

.."And when our children fight our wars, while we sit back just keeping score, We're teaching murder not understanding now."

[Chernobyl Bleak]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

[TwizztiD]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

True and I also agree with the original poster on all of his post

P.S. Have we been attacked by terrorist since we started our crusade in the deserts?

[KaRnAge]

I agree with him also, I also think that a big reason some things in the U.S. and the world happen is because alot of people want to follow everyone else and not be leaders. So when a sensitive subject comes up like people talking about the president and their likes or dislikes, or when death is brought up everyone hides. I think a good way for us to better the U.S. and the world is to debate about topics and put those ideas together to bring us together into an agreement. Everyone is stated to their opinion and should state it and not hide. It's like having the right to vote but not voting then getting pissed off when the president you didn't want in offices wins.

[H2O Creation]

just to answer one question

the main question that's been on my mind, (before i say this, let me say that i DO love president obama) is how can a president with no military experience step in and say we can cleanly break away from this war? i don't want america to be at war, but i don't see how setting a deadline to pull out ouf the afghan/iraq war is possible.

surely you don't think obama makes these decisions by himself, or if he makes these decisions at all.

[Fury TNO]

While we are on the subject of Obama, I was in the USA back in October and kinda caught the run up to the presidency and in my opinion I think that Obama could turn out to be one of the greatest Presidents to grace the whitehouse. I also think that he will be a credit to the united states and good for the rest of the world.

[PMS Disco]

I personally do not understand why we are in Iraq.
We're not wanted there in the first place, why are we wasting our time, and oh, not to mention, the lives of soldiers?
I don't like how the United States seems to think that we're the best of the best and have the right to get into all the other countries' business.
We have no right to do that.
We are not the best country in the world.
All the countries are equal, in my opinion.
I've been told too many times that the sole reason we went into Iraq was for money, and therefore, I have no solid trust in the government, and it's decisions.
NOT that I don't respect the military, my parents were both in it, and my dad is a reservist.
I just don't think it's right to treat people like pawns in a chess game.

[KaRnAge]

To answer some of your questions the reason for in Iraq is because of the events that happened in 9/11 when Al'Qaeda attacked the World Trade Center. The president sent troops over there to eliminate all terrorist threats and there's alot of terrorists over there. I know I did and I know alot of other soldiers that also know that once you sign up for the military especially Army or Marine's you can lose your life because of a war. Everyone should know that joins and be prepared. The U.S. to me is the best country because our economic situation even though it isn't great know it still is better than all the countrys. Our military has the best technology and the best equipment along with tons of soldiers plus along with that were a democracy. I understand your opinion and I respect it but no country is equal to another country everyone country has something better or worse than one another but as the U.S. the biggest thing we have that's a downside compared to other country's is the crime rate... but our military will demoliontion any other country why we haven't lost a war yet.

I personally do not understand why we are in Iraq.
We're not wanted there in the first place, why are we wasting our time, and oh, not to mention, the lives of soldiers?
I don't like how the United States seems to think that we're the best of the best and have the right to get into all the other countries' business.
We have no right to do that.
We are not the best country in the world.
All the countries are equal, in my opinion.
I've been told too many times that the sole reason we went into Iraq was for money, and therefore, I have no solid trust in the government, and it's decisions.
NOT that I don't respect the military, my parents were both in it, and my dad is a reservist.
I just don't think it's right to treat people like pawns in a chess game.

[DejaVu PMS]

To answer some of your questions the reason for in Iraq is because of the events that happened in 9/11 when Al'Qaeda attacked the World Trade Center. The president sent troops over there to eliminate all terrorist threats and there's alot of terrorists over there. I know I did and I know alot of other soldiers that also know that once you sign up for the military especially Army or Marine's you can lose your life because of a war. Everyone should know that joins and be prepared. The U.S. to me is the best country because our economic situation even though it isn't great know it still is better than all the countrys. Our military has the best technology and the best equipment along with tons of soldiers plus along with that were a democracy. I understand your opinion and I respect it but no country is equal to another country everyone country has something better or worse than one another but as the U.S. the biggest thing we have that's a downside compared to other country's is the crime rate... but our military will demoliontion any other country why we haven't lost a war yet.

Some of this I can agree with but some of it I don't. You also have to remember for as long as we have had any Army we have been sticking our noses into everything,even when our help wasn't wanted. Our troops were sent over there to eliminate terrorists not force our ways of life and government on them which is what has happened. Yes all soldiers know when they sign up there's a chance they could lose their life, but what about the countless numbers of men,women and children who have been completely innocent who have lost their lives throughout all these wars including this one. I also don't agree with how the men who went and fought in Vietnam were treated when they came back to the States after doing something they were drafted to do and had no choice really. You either go to War (a conflict as its now called) or go to a Military prison for being AWOL.

I also however somewhat agree with what kid had to say.

Ok I'm done now before I really upset people as I said my views on things are a little different.

[PMS Disco]

To answer some of your questions the reason for in Iraq is because of the events that happened in 9/11 when Al'Qaeda attacked the World Trade Center. The president sent troops over there to eliminate all terrorist threats and there's alot of terrorists over there. I know I did and I know alot of other soldiers that also know that once you sign up for the military especially Army or Marine's you can lose your life because of a war. Everyone should know that joins and be prepared. The U.S. to me is the best country because our economic situation even though it isn't great know it still is better than all the countrys. Our military has the best technology and the best equipment along with tons of soldiers plus along with that were a democracy. I understand your opinion and I respect it but no country is equal to another country everyone country has something better or worse than one another but as the U.S. the biggest thing we have that's a downside compared to other country's is the crime rate... but our military will demoliontion any other country why we haven't lost a war yet.

I failed to mention that the United States (to me) is not the best because of a bunch of things~.
I don't base our country's "Best-Factor" on the state of its military or the state of its technology.
I'm not too much of a fan of the US because of the fact that we DO think we're the best and we DO think that we basically own the world.
I feel like sometimes we fail to recognize that everyone is human and everyone is equal.
We're not better because of our military, or because of our economy, or because of our pseudo equal rights protection laws, we're just like everyone else on this planet.
Sometimes we put ourselves on such a pedestal of greatness, and reject the fact that bad things can happen to us.
Our economy is where it is now because of that pedestal, because of the fact that we think we're the illusive country, invulnerable to all things negative.
I respect your opinion ten fold, I'm no expert on our military and our technologies, but I'm positive there are a LOT of things that we know nothing about as far as the technological advances of other countries governments.
I'd rank a country's "Best-Factor" on the overall happiness of the country, and the country's overall respect for the privacy and rights of other countries.
Go Sweden.
:P

[lizzardofdoom]

Wow....I will keep this short and simple...my major was International Relations and Chinese...I could talk about this for hours...

Quicknote: A lot of you ask why we even went there and why are we STILL there?

Our response to 9/11 was to send troops to the Middle East and help contain/wipe out terrorism. Lets face it - there is no way we can get rid of EVERY terrorist cell in world, there are to many different minds in the world for them to agree on one thing.

There are countries who have no political structure in the Middle East because terrorist cells have a SUBSTANTIAL influence that people are scared to speak, let alone protest. Even though the war has been destructive on their homeland, we have also provided a safe haven for those in danger of their local terrorist cells. If we left Iraq and Afghanistan now, the countries would collapse at a FAST rate...if this happens...what would happen to the countries military supplies (bombs, rockets, aid, weapons, ammo..etc)? The terrorists would get it! Then what? We're screwed. (I mean..look at North Korea right now?...scurry!)

You also have to take into consideration that we (American Citizens) get our information from the media! How much of this information is not biased - probably a slim percentage! Even then, how much does the media know about a full story? They get their info from sneaking around with cameras or talking to the government. Do you really think the gvt. is going to release complete details about operations, events, intel? OF COURSE NOT! Everything we read, watch or listen too is limited information on a specific topic, we never get the full story. How can we make a valuable opinion on a war when we only know pieces of what is happening?

Also - When 9/11 happened, people were for the war! "OH yea, lets kill these guys that did this to us..." yadda yadda, "they need to pay for what they did.." yadda yadda.... 8 years down the road our opinion changes. I cannot tell if its changed because of our economy, because people "see" what is happening in Iraq and disagree OR because its been 8 years and people forget what 9/11 DID DO to our country. It had a huge impact and opened our eyes to our vulnerability..
Just because time has passed, it does not mean that the actions on 9/11 are not as detrimental..talk to the families who were directly affected and see if they've forgotten....good luck.

I can say that I am sick of people blaming our economy on the war..yes, the war is not helping obviously - but if we were not in the war then all of the troops would be home, doing what? Training? Being told by the military to go get a job, because they cant house them anymore? Do you honestly think that the war is the reason our banks lent out money to people that were unreliable? Did the war cause corporations to give their CEO's million dollar bonuses? No.

It sounds like some people blame everything on George Bush or Obama....I hope you will realize one day that the whole reason we have a democratic gvt. is so the power/decisions is balanced out! Obama has so many advisers its ridunkulous! So, maybe next time you should take into consideration that he is doing what he feels to be the best for American Citizens and he gets his information from his advisers. It's not like he has the power to wake up one morning and go, "Oh, lets send 50,000 troops to Afghanistan next week." AND you have to give the guy credit - he has a plan to bring the troops home and he devised that plan immediately when he came into office. :mvclap:

Right now - I dont care how or why we got ourselves into the situation we are in the Middle East. The real question should be: How are we going to safely remove our troops in the Middle East while maintaining a stable Government for the countries?

I respect EVERYONE'S opinions and thoughts...please do not get upset from reading this..this is directed towards no one..it is simply something to ponder!

I typed this uber quick..hope its not confusing! Looking forward to the responses.

WATCH IT - If you haven't seen this video, its only a few minutes long...(my 11th grade history teacher showed our class this...)
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end
:mvsuprisehug:

[ladychidori]

just to answer one question



surely you don't think obama makes these decisions by himself, or if he makes these decisions at all.

lol, no, i dont. :) but i do assume that he is the deciding factor and that it's in his own objective to end the iraq war with simply a deadline. isn't that how it came across is his campaign speeches? look. i do agree that president obama has the potential to be the best u.s. president of all time. i'm just saying that i disagree with his plans to end the war. that's all.

no two people will ever completely agree when it comes to ideals and government. :)

[KaRnAge]

Yeah at first I was very skeptical of Obama now I'm backing off but I still don't think that it would be safe to pull out of Iraq anytime soon, there's still lots of terrorists but if we pull it out everything will go back to normal in a couple weeks or months I assure you for Iraq and Afghanistan..Also with what ladychidori said that nobody will ever agree is true.. I know lots of soldiers that have came back from Iraq and didn't complain about why we were there and believed we should stay and wanted to go back then I've talked to guys that hated it and hated the president for sending us there.

[H2O Creation]

lol, no, i dont. :) but i do assume that he is the deciding factor and that it's in his own objective to end the iraq war with simply a deadline. isn't that how it came across is his campaign speeches? look. i do agree that president obama has the potential to be the best u.s. president of all time. i'm just saying that i disagree with his plans to end the war. that's all.

no two people will ever completely agree when it comes to ideals and government. :)

may be it was just a campaign stratergy to win the election... if polls were saying that the majority of americans wanted their troops to be pulled out, it would win an awfully lot of votes.

and also...

go sweden.... lol

[Fury TNO]

OK on a serious note and for this I have a very very strong opinion!!! & I think you should ALL listen up....

Disco for president.... and PMS DOOM for foreign affairs.... only then would the world be a truly great place!!!

[Black Capone]

*sigh*. OK, government lies, Obama looked like the good guy, but eventually he'll lie, they all do it, no matter if the even want to or not (sometimes they have a good reason to lie), if you're poor, they'll forget about you; middle class they'll ask for your money ALL the time, rich and they kiss your ass. Simple (then again, I can always be inaccurate in some/most/all areas).

Well, why do the rich have so much power? Money, we all know this. The top rich people in this country pull in a nice chunk of the overall country's profit. And what do they do with that money? Fuel our economy. If they go broke, we're all.....screwed, reason why Obama hasn't hit them with higher taxes yet.

Honestly, though, I've decided to go with a "**** you" policy towards politics, for the simple reason of it's more of a headache than needed. There's no point in me worrying if my country's "officials" are going to try to screw me out of my money, because they probably are since greed is a powerful sin (for those that believe in Christianity). Greed, sloth, envy, wrath, pride, gluttony, lust...your seven deadly sins, and I bet you can find them all in politics.......blah blah blah, yadda yadda, yadda, want an example of corruption, look at Illinois government (sad, but true; last 6 of 11 governors have gone to jail)....

It's just old and tiring. I say live your life the way you want to, but I choose not to be worried by such bs

[lizzardofdoom]

OK on a serious note and for this I have a very very strong opinion!!! & I think you should ALL listen up....

Disco for president.... and PMS DOOM for foreign affairs.... only then would the world be a truly great place!!!

Alright Disco let's go! We got a few years to prepare...LOL!
Ha! That's awesome :)

[lizzardofdoom]

Yeah at first I was very skeptical of Obama now I'm backing off but I still don't think that it would be safe to pull out of Iraq anytime soon, there's still lots of terrorists but if we pull it out everything will go back to normal in a couple weeks or months I assure you for Iraq and Afghanistan..Also with what ladychidori said that nobody will ever agree is true.. I know lots of soldiers that have came back from Iraq and didn't complain about why we were there and believed we should stay and wanted to go back then I've talked to guys that hated it and hated the president for sending us there.
Yea, I've had friends come back from Iraq too...
Some said they were bored...
some said there was so much action...
My friend in the Marines said his first day there a kid pulled a weapon out of his jacket and pointed it at the Marine...I don't have to explain what happened to the kid...you know...

It's sad that young children are trained to kill and hate everything..everyone...every country but their own. And this isn't just a problem in the Middle East...Africa has warlords everywhere that are training young ones as well...pathetic.
They take away the child's opportunity to live a peaceful life, when they see treacherous acts everyday...

[Black Capone]

"The bullet from a 14-year-old is just as effective as a bullet from a 40-year-old, sometimes, even more effective." - quoted from Lord of War

Remember that part when Yuri started selling arms to the African warlord???? Remember his platoon of children that all looked younger than the age of 18, maybe even 15????


It's a cold world out there......

[KaRnAge]

The more kids they have the less likely they have to pull out the truly good sharpshooters. It sucks but it's very true, see I say lets have a chilled discussion and it worked.... It's because you have to have an educated argument not one with a bunch of cusing and telling the other person their stupid

[PMS Disco]

Alright Disco let's go! We got a few years to prepare...LOL!
Ha! That's awesome :)

Let's Do It!! :D
I'll make the campaign posters xD!


The more kids they have the less likely they have to pull out the truly good sharpshooters. It sucks but it's very true, see I say lets have a chilled discussion and it worked.... It's because you have to have an educated argument not one with a bunch of cusing and telling the other person their stupid
Nothing like a good old-fashioned educated debate :P

[Black Capone]

The more kids they have the less likely they have to pull out the truly good sharpshooters. It sucks but it's very true, see I say lets have a chilled discussion and it worked.... It's because you have to have an educated argument not one with a bunch of cusing and telling the other person their stupid

lol, convos like that aren't tolerated well here :) maturity ftw

[ladychidori]

you're such a punk still, creation :)