Death? Or Taxes - PLEASE READ!

[PMS Anarchy]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173&hl=en


I encourage every single one of you to watch this video. I do understand it is long, but you need to realize that you are slaves to your government. Not only Americans....but people around the world.

This video describes the illegal actions of the government through income tax, National ID cards, and the push for world government. There is no law stating you are required to pay your taxes, National ID cards which will track every purchase, are being designed and even implicated as we speak, and the government...is pushing towards world government.

Examples of such described atrocities:

North American Union: This will merge Canada, America and Mexico under one government and one currency
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T74VA3xU0EA

No law requiring you to pay taxes: New York Times released a 50,000$ reward in 2007 for anyone who can provide the Law that requires you to pay your taxes, it has yet to be found.

National ID Cards: Cards that will have all of your information on them such as your income, your savings, bank account information, everything. This is so the government can track you, wherever you go.
http://epic.org/privacy/id-cards/




Join the fight
www.freedomtofacism.com


It has come to my attention that this probably sounds crazy lol, im sure it does. Scary part is, its true. If you find me crazy, that's fine. But at least prove me wrong, and i will sincerely apologize.

[H2O Creation]

can you imagine if no one paid their taxes, i not sure how the American government works but if that happened in England we would lose our free health services, poverty and crime would rise, we would most probably get ripped off with privatisation left right and centre. There would be anarchy... The country would probably start crumbling to the ground starting with the roads then to our houses. i should think the standard of living would deteriorate. I'm sorry but i didn't watch past the first five minutes due to the lack of time but whether you like it or not taxes are there for a reason.

[PMS Anarchy]

See, there is is. Thank you for bringing up the point that "The world would end" if we stopped paying taxes. Thats a lie you have been fed, educate yourself on these things. If we stop paying taxes, the world will not end. Not even close. The taxes you pay hardly even go towards those things you are "Supposedly" paying for. I forget the figure, its in the movie. But its something like 200 trillion dollars of tax money has disappeared, not going towards health care, or anything, just disappeared. Once again, the world will NOT crumble or end if you stop paying taxes. Seriously, read.


taxes are there for a reason.

Once again, taxes are not there for a reason. Taxes were originally made for income. Income is defined as the gain or profit from corporations, not your labor, not your wages. There is no law requiring you to pay your taxes at all.

[H2O Creation]

by any chance do you work for a paper because not at one point did i mention that the world was going to end... ha..

so tell me why were taxes were formed then? for no reason whatsoever... were they not formed to benefit society in any way but for the rich cats to get richer... i doubt that very much, i believe they were formed to make a society function more fluently. yes there is alot of greed out there and and i wouldnt be suprised if money disappeared into thin air.... the worlds a very corrupt place but in all that bad the money that doesn't disappear is used to fund health services, pension schemes and county's or states which ever you would like to call them!

[PMS Anarchy]

if that happened in England we would lose our free health services, poverty and crime would rise, we would most probably get ripped off with privatisation left right and centre. There would be anarchy... The country would probably start crumbling to the ground starting with the roads then to our houses.

That sounds like the world ending to me.


so tell me why were taxes were formed then? for no reason whatsoever... were they not formed to benefit society in any way but for the rich cats to get richer... i doubt that very much

Once again i tell you to educate yourself, they were created to pay off the loan bankers gave to the government. Its all in the video. Also, i state again, taxes were also created to tax income from profits or gains from corporations. When a corporation makes a profit, that profit must be taxes. Not your wages, and not your income which it is now.

money that doesn't disappear is used to fund health services, pension schemes and county's or states which ever you would like to call them!

Yes other country's are significantly better with their taxes, but i know for a fact that our tax dollars are not doing anything in our country. We constantly have school programs cut back and things of that nature from money that disappears and does not go towards what it is needed to.

by any chance do you work for a paper

Obviously not as the media has a 40 year strong unspoken agreement NOT to cover such events or details ;)

[B1gg Randall]

I watch some of the video...And will continue after this post But..Thats crazy dude...Its down right shady... :(

[PMS Anarchy]

I watch some of the video...And will continue after this post But..Thats crazy dude...Its down right shady...

I know :((



Also, a very good point just arose. Even if you do believe that taxes were made for a reason, why is it that there is NO law requiring you to, yet, if you don't..you can go to prison?

[H2O Creation]

we're debating here on two different entities, two entirely different countries. we obviously have a different system here in england where a society depends on taxes and national insurance contributions. like i said in the beginning, im not sure how you deal with your taxes over in america but here in england it would most probably be the end of the world... sorry couldn't resist that last bit! It's also three in the morning and I'm pretty tired... but if i get the chance tomorrow I'll watch that video but it all sounds a little micheal moore ish to me!!

[PMS Anarchy]

Its not just the United states as i said before. Banks are pushing for Global Governement. If you like how you have free health care, you can kiss that goodbye if this gets passed.


But, good night.

[H2O Creation]

never mind, we may get free health care. but i didn't say it was any good!!!:mvsmile:
night!!!!!!!!!

[SlamDance]

Hmm.

I believe that taxes are the wages we pay our government in return for the services they provide. I believe that if said services are either not provided or are provided at a standard less than the buyer expects, then the wages should be withheld.

I also believe that the people withholding the wages should be willing to look into other ways of getting those services, even if it means providing them themselves. A sore subject around where I live is the woeful state of government-funded schools in my area. It's my honest opinion that in addition to writing to local members of parliament, etc., a viable option is to decide to pay less tax - provided the people refusing to pay that tax then put their own money and time into bringing the schools up to the standard they expect.

Maybe it's the sort of thing that needs to be started at a community level - a group of locals gets together to fix up a school, keeps a tally of who spends what money and time on the effort, then come tax return time demands that the money spent, and the equivalent in wages to the time spent, is taken off their taxable income for the year.

[PMS Anarchy]

Without taxes we would still be able to have the services we require and the services of which you speak. The government is made to pay for said services, but instead is making us pay the cost of our slavery.

[H2O Double B]

Do you guys wanna hear my take on this ? 'Cause I got a lot to say. let me get a drink and I'll think of my reply, because you hit on some very interesting points. Do you guys understand the term "usury"?

[H2O Creation]

usury that would mean unreasonable and high rates of interest on loans etc...just off to a christening now but please carry on...

[H2O Double B]

I completely agree with your statement w/out even having watched the video yet, I have known about this for years, and was always waiting to give my take on this.
This is not an argumentative post, just informative to get people talking/discussing/debating.

BTW I started my own real estate investment/holding business a few years ago, and I have enough deductions to cover all of income tax. I haven't payed Federal income tax in years. The smartest thing I learned in College was from my Economics/personal Finance professor was that only suckers pay income tax. If you are not itemizing than you have already lost. I'll tell you more on that later.

I'll try to break down each one of your complaints.
Well here I go:

First of all we are not working for the Government(s). I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in the states we are working for what is called the "Federal Reserve".
this is the "Federal Banking System" that ALL banks borrow from in what's called overnight loans. It's not really a loan, but the FED sets the overnight loan under 2% (the interest rate for the entire banking system is based on this percentage index, from car and home loans to personal).This is what banks borrow to keep their day to day operations going until all your checks have cleared/debits charged/blah blah... Well the FED also lends the Governmernt its' money to do its' day to day operations usually at a much higher rate, because the loans are taken out every quarter or so( usually for the fiscal year until everyone's taxes pay for the previous year). BTW there are 12 Fed banks in the United States (the closest one to me was Dallas, we had a branch back in San Antonio but it's not the REAL thing).
No one uses these banks except other banks under FDIC or the government. My point is this, the federal deficit you hear of is the amount of money (principle + interest) owed to the FED (as it's affectionately known), by OUR Government. We owe so they owe, the government takes out loans to pay for ALL those goods and services we take for granted . What year was Social Security passed, What president started the IRS and Social Security and Why? It's to protect yourself from yourselves. The government added income tax in to pay for its' yearly budget (i'm not sure when, don't have that info' here in front of me).In Texas we have some of the best Homestead exemption laws in the U.S. They were put in place over a hundred years ago to protect the family from losing their home in the event they couldn't pay for other obligations excluding the house (you still have to pay for your loan, insurance if you owe on it, and property taxes to the COUNTY).
on a side note: Some hotshot Houston Lawyer found out it was illegal for the homeowners to pay school district taxes, and set off to sue the county and state for back property taxes. Well that sent Austin in a tizzy, how wold you make up a school districts funds from property taxes, much less thousands of counties.

So we are not paying the government at all, but rather the FED and the twelve heads of the 12 Banks. Think of the Govt. as a holding company. Paying to pave your streets, put up your crosswalks, have a police/fire dept for emergencies with loans from the FED until they see your money. Would people be willing to pay for all the services that they don't use, of course not, but the govt. has to pay no matter who uses them.
How many of you out there got a pell grant to go to college/university?
Federal Govt.
How many of you bought a house and got a govt. insured loan through FHA or Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac?
Fed Govt.
How many of your parents who have their own business got a small business loan from SBA, or got a huge govt. contract for goods or services?
Fed Govt.
How many of your parents (or you) have govt. jobs?

You get the picture.

Don't get me wrong, if the justice system has taught me anything about the govt. and they way it does business, the govt./city/county doesn't care about you. they want your time or your money, sometimes both. If we didn't have these taxes (w/ representation, remember that's why we ceded from the Old Country across the pond) We would have to individual pay for someone to make sure I have a road to use to get to work, someone to pick up my garbage 2 times a week, someone to sell me water to use in my house ( which I would have to pay cash, since the govt. doesn't offer insured loans to indviduals) blah blah blah..

Next point:
The World Banking System
Do you know how much good the World bank has Done? If you have the time take a look at the documentary movie "Fog of War" about Robert McNamara (one of the sharpest individuals I will never have the pleasure of meeting). He was the Secretary of Defense for Kennedy/Johnson, and then went on to head the World Bank for 13 years. He describes an encounter on the extra scenes with a young girl in Seattle at the time of the huge demonstration/riots during the G8 summit/ and he asked why she was protesting and she had no real answer, just that it was bad. I can't go into the reply, it chokes me up everytime I think of that scene. But he, and others including precious Bono, have worked with All of the Banks and Govenrments to reduce the amount of money 3rd world developing countries owe back to the system on loans that they can't possibly repay. Inflation at 300%, poverty/sickness, no GDP, is what these people have to work with. They are seen as the evildoers, but they are the ones who already loaned out the money years ago, and corrupt govts and people have forced them to call the loans back in. Hey I don't blame them, If you lent someone money to pay their rent and they blew it on themselves, wouldn't you be a little pissed off?

Now the Nationa Id cards are a result of , wait for it, wait for it...
September 11, 2001. It's a small price to pay if you got nothing to hide.

Usury- the economic term where one party charges interest from a man-made object ($ money) and charges people to borrow for/from said object.
The bible doesn't like man made inventions that cause strife, and I never knew it was in the Bible untli later in life.
It's one of the lower rings of Hell in Dante's "Inferno" All the shopkeepers that charged absorbitant prices or the companiy's that charged interest on their goods or services from back in the day. That is what the term means.

Good luck with this one, I need to lie down. I feel like I gave birth to an Accountant.

[H2O Double B]

usury that would mean unreasonable and high rates of interest on lans etc...just off to a christening now but please carry on...

thank you I like your definition better, I was (as always) going from memory. I haven't figured this whole internets thingy.

[PMS Solincia]

I don't have an issue with being taxed, but I do have an issue with being double taxed.

My income is taxed, and where I live you pay Fed tax, State tax, City tax to where you live AND City tax to where you work. You pay both.

Then we get taxed on what we purchase with that already taxed income. THAT is what bothers me. I think sales tax should be outlawed due to already paying tax on the income that you are spending.

I'm happy with the new schools that are being built, the new libraries that are being constructed, the police and fire departments that are plentiful and quick to respond... All of these things I pay my taxes for. My city taxes pay for city waste removal and recycling, they pay the water department to keep me in water, the metroparks, the neigborhood parks, the state parks, the national parks.... There is so much GOOD that taxes do pay for.

My taxes also go to pay the men and woman of the armed forces, and to that I'm fine with. Do you see me going out there to fight, sacrifice my life, for those of my nation? No. The only gun in my hand is a BR in HALO 3 while I'm sitting on my lazy butt playing on Xbox live. So I'm not about to complain about paying taxes to support them.

Personally, I think it's a bit offensive to compare paying taxes to slavery. There is no comparison.

Again, I have no problem paying taxes, I understand the basics of how it works, it's just the double taxation I have an issue with.

[VULCAN PMS]

hm.
without taxes everything would be fine? i think not.
hence why taxes were imposed in the first place. look at the wars that go on and the money that is needed to provide for the people who fight in such wars. simple things like schooling for children who have no school. taxes do a lot for the world, whether we see where every single penny goes or not.

quit being selfish with the fact that we do have money and yet, you yourselves have been paying taxes. this is not going to end up like we all pictured in Fight Club.
granted, there is no law, which we can see in writing to prove the law, but i mean, look at wesley snipes.

oh, btw. how was everyones refund check?

[H2O Double B]

If you are getting a refund you are losing money, btw what city do you pay a city tax in? I would like to know.

Now then, let's say you pay in $2000 to your fed/state income tax, excluding any contributions to your SS or FICA.
And then you get back $1200, not bad if you have a good tax person. But you lost $800 to the gov. by not itemizing or having enough deductions. that's is where most young people make the misconception that any amount back is a good thing. Self-employed people are able to keep there money in a bank/cd and earn interest on their money while you pay the govt. and then are happy to get a fraction back. Not smart. I know being young is difficult and the world is an uphill battle most of the time.
Can't get a good job, go to school to get a better job, get a degree then no one hires you until you have "experience", can't get the experience, get the experience and then realize your career choice sux.
Experience is something you recieve right after you don't need it anymore.

Real Estate or starting your own business is the way to go. Professional Gaming has a lot of deductions if you can attend all the events and save your receipts.
Ex. of deductions for pro gamers:
Air and hotel deductions for business travel
Cab rides to and from events
Entry Fee to tournaments/events BYOC fees
50% of entire bill for entertainment of dinner meetings as long as you talk business at some point
Any New Gear you need to be successful ( new controller every month, new lcd competition monitor as long as it is the same one used in gaming tournaments, Your XBOX Live acct. if you have to qualify online, the depreciation on your XBOX/PC/PS3 if you use it to compete online or travel with it to events, A portion of your internet service that you use to play said online qualifiers, the sq. footage deuction in the game room in your house if it's used as an office/gameroom and there is no bed in there,the list goes on and on).

So start itemizing, buy a house for no money down, that's what I do (at least no closing costs, I can show you how w/ out you sending me money or sitting in some stupid seminar) I own 2 Victorian beauties back in San Antonio that are rented out to great people. They are paying down my mortgage while I reap the tax benefits. Start a real estate rental co. and LEASE a vehicle. This is how the filthy rich do it. They don't buy cars, they LEASE them for their companies and are able to deduct the full payment, insurance and sometimes mileage as long as it is used for the business ( I leased an F150 for 2 years and then traded it back in for a new F150 and a new Lease 2 years later with a small down payment and then held that for 2 more years while I finished working on my houses, and then gave it back when the lease was up right before the gas prices started going up. You should've heard the deals the car salesman wanted to give me to keep the trucks and not give them back. I laughed and said good luck, my time with these vehicle types is over, and I walk away CLEAN. No being under on a car payment, no crappy trad-in value, no haggling, just thank you and I'll see you next time I need atruck for 2 years, or any vehicle to do business for that matter.

A good tax attorney/ tax acct. is the first place to start, they cost more than Jackson-Hewitt, or H&R Block, but trust me once you start itemizing it will open your eyes to all you have been missing out on. And once you learn, maybe you can be smart enough to do it on your own, but I trust my tax preparer over my judgement, besides if I get audited She goes with me if she did the tax return. Make sure you ask for this service if available.

I have spoken.

[H2O Car2oon]

Ive known about this for a while and ill post some links to many movies and documentary's about it(some have already been sited)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ (Very good site on News and politics)

http://www.infowars.com/?cat=28 (a lot of information about 9/11)

http://youtube.com/user/911truthnc (Even more information relating the government to 9/11)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-82095917705734983&q=Bohemian+Grove&ei=DwNxSJCtI4KwrAKIh5yjBQ&hl=en
(Bohemian Grove aka a meeting place for world leaders)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197&q=Zeitgeist&ei=WgNxSOqbK6WCrALJqOytDg&hl=en
(link government to religions)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8740703353227564451&q=drug+war&ei=jANxSLaDK6TsrALX4ajRAg&hl=en
(FBI's close ties to drugs)

http://infowars.com/police_state.html (American Spying)

Watch all the EndGame movies and Police State movies. That's all i can remember off the top of my head.
BTW anarchy its income taxes that are unconstitutional not all of them.

[PMS Anarchy]

Now the Nationa Id cards are a result of , wait for it, wait for it...
September 11, 2001. It's a small price to pay if you got nothing to hide.

It started before then. But ok.



Ok so i dont want to fight over this topic because obviously some people fail to see the severity in this issue. Just answer this question, just one question. And it is a logical question to ask. If there is no law, why do we go to prison? Just answer that. There is NO logical reason that you should be punished for not following a law that does not exist.

[PMS Solincia]

btw what city do you pay a city tax in? I would like to know.



I pay taxes to the city of Lakewood, Ohio, and to the cities I work in... This year that will be Elyria and Beachwood, Ohio.

That's how it is here... you pay to the city you live and work in. AND, yes, while there are some cities that will accept 100% of the money you paid to another city for work, the city <and many> cities that I live in DO NOT accept 100%, therefore I still end up paying quite a bit to both.

[PMS Anarchy]

That's how it is here... you pay to the city you live and work in. AND, yes, while there are some cities that will accept 100% of the money you paid to another city for work, the city <and many> cities that I live in DO NOT accept 100%, therefore I still end up paying quite a bit to both.

Yes, there is an actual law requiring you to pay your City/State taxes ONLY IF YOU PAY FEDERAL TAXES which there is no law for. That law is null, and so is the 16th amendment that legalizes taxing income. It was never ratified, the government is enforcing a law that does not exist.

[H2O Hamlet]

I'm not in the mood to write. And I usually try to stay away from political posts because they are just arguments and no one side will ever listen to the other... All Biased opinion and stubborn individuals that want to be noticed. I'll just link you and quote a huge post from the IRS's website. I've also had some drinks so sorry if I say something stupid.

And a Side Note... I could care less about National ID cards. I am a law abiding citizen of the United States of America. I have absolutely nothing to hide. And I'll be damned if I'll be mad at my country for trying to prevent another Terrorist Attack. Why don't you put your parents/children/self in those towers and go to their funeral(s) before you realize why its important.

LINK: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=106502,00.html

Main Point: The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in Internal Revenue Code §§ 6011(a) , 6012(a) , et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg. § 1.6011-1(a). Also set forth by Supreme Court Judiciary Rulings.

Article:
Anti-Tax Law Evasion Schemes - Law and Arguments (Section I)


I. The Voluntary Nature of the Federal Income Tax System

A. Contention: The filing of a tax return is voluntary.

Some assert that they are not required to file federal tax returns because the filing of a tax return is voluntary. Proponents point to the fact that the IRS itself tells taxpayers in the Form 1040 instruction book that the tax system is voluntary. Additionally, the Supreme Court's opinion in Flora v. United States, 362 U.S. 145, 176 (1960), is often quoted for the proposition that "our system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint."

The Law: The word "voluntary," as used in Flora and in IRS publications, refers to our system of allowing taxpayers to determine the correct amount of tax and complete the appropriate returns, rather than have the government determine tax for them. The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in Internal Revenue Code §§ 6011(a) , 6012(a) , et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg. § 1.6011-1(a).

Any taxpayer who has received more than a statutorily determined amount of gross income is obligated to file a return. Failure to file a tax return could subject the noncomplying individual to criminal penalties, including fines and imprisonment, as well as civil penalties. In United States v. Tedder, 787 F.2d 540, 542 (10 th Cir. 1986), the court clearly states, "although Treasury regulations establish voluntary compliance as the general method of income tax collection, Congress gave the Secretary of the Treasury the power to enforce the income tax laws through involuntary collection . . . . The IRS' efforts to obtain compliance with the tax laws are entirely proper."

Relevant Case Law:
Helvering v. Mitchell, 303 U.S. 391, 399 (1938) - The U.S. Supreme Court stated, "[i]n assessing income taxes, the Government relies primarily upon the disclosure by the taxpayer of the relevant facts . . . in his annual return. To ensure full and honest disclosure, to discourage fraudulent attempts to evade the tax, Congress imposes [either criminal or civil] sanctions."

United States v. Tedder, 787 F.2d 540, 542 (10 th Cir. 1986) - The court upheld a conviction for willfully failing to file a return, stating that the premise "that the tax system is somehow 'voluntary' . . . is incorrect."

United States v. Richards, 723 F.2d 646, 648 (8 th Cir. 1983) - The court upheld conviction and fines imposed for willfully failing to file tax returns, stating that the claim that filing a tax return is voluntary "was rejected in United States v. Drefke, 707 F.2d 978, 981 (8 th Cir. 1983), wherein the court described appellant's argument as "an imaginative argument, but totally without arguable merit."

Woods v. Commissioner, 91 T.C. 88, 90 (1988) - The court rejected the claim that reporting income taxes is strictly voluntary, referring to it as a "tax protester type" argument, and found Woods liable for the penalty for failure to file a return.

Johnson v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 1999-312, 78 T.C.M. (CCH) 468, 471 (1999) - The court found Johnson liable for the failure to file penalty and rejected his argument "that the tax system is voluntary so that he cannot be forced to comply" as "frivolous."

B. Contention: Payment of tax is voluntary.

In a similar vein, some argue that they are not required to pay federal taxes because the payment of federal taxes is voluntary. Proponents of this position argue that our system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment.

The Law: The requirement to pay taxes is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in section 1 of the Internal Revenue Code, which imposes a tax on the taxable income of individuals, estates, and trusts as determined by the tables set forth in that section. (Section 11 imposes a tax on the taxable income of corporations.) Furthermore, the obligation to pay tax is described in section 6151 , which requires taxpayers to submit payment with their tax returns. Failure to pay taxes could subject the noncomplying individual to criminal penalties, including fines and imprisonment, as well as civil penalties.

In discussing section 6151, the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals stated "when a tax return is required to be filed, the person so required 'shall' pay such taxes to the internal revenue officer with whom the return is filed at the fixed time and place. The sections of the Internal Revenue Code imposed a duty on Drefke to file tax returns and pay the . . . tax, a duty which he chose to ignore." United States v. Drefke, 707 F.2d 978, 981 (8 th Cir. 1983).

Relevant Case Law:
United States v. Bressler, 772 F.2d 287, 291 (7 th Cir. 1985) - The court upheld Bressler's conviction for tax evasion, noting, "[he] has refused to file income tax returns and pay the amounts due not because he misunderstands the law, but because he disagrees with it . . . . [O]ne who refuses to file income tax returns and pay the tax owing is subject to prosecution, even though the tax protester believes the laws requiring the filing of income tax returns and the payment of income tax are unconstitutional."

Schiff v. United States, 919 F.2d 830, 833 (2d Cir. 1990), cert. denied, 501 U.S. 1238 (1991) - The court rejected Schiff's arguments as meritless and upheld imposition of the civil fraud penalty, stating "[t]he frivolous nature of this appeal is perhaps best illustrated by our conclusion that Schiff is precisely the sort of taxpayer upon whom a fraud penalty for failure to pay income taxes should be imposed."

Packard v. United States, 7 F. Supp. 2d 143, 145 (D. Conn. 1998) - The court dismissed Packard's refund suit for recovery of penalties for failure to pay income tax and failure to pay estimated taxes where the taxpayer contested the obligation to pay taxes on religious grounds, noting that "the ability of the Government to function could be impaired if persons could refuse to pay taxes because they disagreed with the Government's use of tax revenues."

United States v. Gerads, 999 F.2d 1255, 1256 (8 th Cir. 1993) - The court stated that "[taxpayers'] claim that payment of federal income tax is voluntary clearly lacks substance" and imposed sanctions in the amount of $1,500 "for bringing this frivolous appeal based on discredited, tax-protestor arguments."

Note: This page contains one or more references to the Internal Revenue Code (IRC), Treasury Regulations, court cases, or other official tax guidance. References to these legal authorities are included for the convenience of those who would like to read the technical reference material. To access the applicable IRC sections, Treasury Regulations, or other official tax guidance, visit the Tax Code, Regulations, and Official Guidance page. To access any Tax Court case opinions issued after September 24, 1995, visit the Opinions Search page of the United States Tax Court.

Supreme Court rulings are just as good as the law.

Thank You, It's time for Bed.

Freedom isn't free. The way we go about some parts of our government and country may not be the best... but if you don't like it go to a Third World Country and tell me how much freedom you have there. I Love America, and I believe if you're a good citizen you have nothing to worry about. No one in my family has ever had an issue with the government, and we pay taxes just like everyone else.

Also
Amendment XVI (1913)

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

[HawkAmazon]

Hmm i have no clue about american law,only that i manage to break a few whenever i visit:mvconfused:

And i don't have time to watch the video,but that global goverment thing freaks me out.

But i agree with Hamlet on the I.D cards, they wan't fingerprint or iris scan cards here which seeing as we have so many illegal immigrants working here. An i.d doesn't sound to bad since i'm not planing to break any laws that is.

As for taxes, i think Hybrid hit the nail on the head for england, we pay taxes for the service's we get, though our goverment is a money hungry dictatorship at the moment, our taxes aren't to bad well on what we earn anyway, everything else has just skyrocketed,so i may feel differently by the end of the year.

I'm not sure if there is a law here that says you have to pay.
but where i live we have a good nhs service,not to bad schools and alot of council money going to elderly and children's programs.

So personally for my life taxes are fine, but i guess it'll be different wherever you live.

Hawk

[PMS Anarchy]

All that article says really, is that paying taxes is voluntary, and all it is saying, is what people ARE doing, not what they are supposed to. It does not show actual documentation that there is a law. ONCE AGAIN, YOU FIND THE LAW, I WILL APPOLOGIZE! YOU CAN pay your taxes, but you are not FORCED to by law. And Amendment XVI (1913) was never ratified, so don't try to use that. The senate waited for most of the senators to leave on Christmas to throw that amendment in, it was never clearly ratified, and does not count as a law that requires you to pay your taxes.



Once again, people are fighting on this, saying im a bad American for not paying taxes or what not. Just show me the law that MAKES us pay taxes. Dont fight, dont make fun of me, just find the law and i will apologize and never speak of this to anyone ever again.

[GrandPhoenix]

Life. Life and taxes 100%. I'd rather be alive and pay taxes than dead and pay nothing.

[PMS Anarchy]

^ erm ok....anyways, anyone found the law yet?

[GrandPhoenix]

Which law? The law that sez that technically we don't HAVE to pay taxes?

[PMS Anarchy]

No, I am looking for the law that states that we HAVE to pay taxes.

I am also looking for someone to explain to me how EVERYTHING they lay down as proof that we have to pay taxes, says its voluntary (As the article showed above), and yet, we still can go to prison for not following this invisible law. I await this miracle.

[H2O Creation]

if all the money in the world cant keep you from going to prison... i suggest you pay your taxes....

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/25/smbusiness/snipes_jail_time.fsb/?postversion=2008042516

[PMS Anarchy]

lol, actually, most of the cases that go to the Supreme court for failure to pay taxes, is turned down and they are found not guilty. Look up the figures.

if all the money in the world cant keep you from going to prison... i suggest you pay your taxes....

Still, not a reason for them to put you in prison for not following an invisible law. Your just going to accept that the government is lying to you? If you are, that's fine. But for anyone else that finds this appalling, then i suggest you think about that for a minute.

[H2O Creation]

i'm really quite interested to find out about this invisible law, i 've sent a message to afriend through facebook who's a law student... he may have some more insight but i'll have to wait for the reply to find out!... tick tock tick tock... i really hate clock watching...

[PMS Anarchy]

i'm really quite interested to find out about this invisible law, i 've sent a message to afriend through facebook who's a law student... he may have some more insight but i'll have to wait for the reply to find out!... tick tock tick tock... i really hate clock watching...

Ok ^_^ I am interested in what your friend has to say :) Oh did you see my post earlier? The New York Times put out a 50,000$ reward for anyone able to find a law that requires you to pay your taxes, that was put out in 2007 and has yet to be found.

[H2O Hamlet]

Let me write it again... You must have missed it.

The word "voluntary," as used in Flora and in IRS publications, refers to our system of allowing taxpayers to determine the correct amount of tax and complete the appropriate returns, rather than have the government determine tax for them. The requirement to file an income tax return is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in Internal Revenue Code §§ 6011(a) , 6012(a) , et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg. § 1.6011-1(a).

As for the Conspiracy theory. I pitty them. Pretty much all I have to say.

And read the entire document. You must not have read it clearly, or rushed through it. It states, as I just bolded for you above, the law. That is in fact law. What do you want? Something written in the Constitution in stone saying you have to? Because I can find some really low blow laws that aren't written there but we still follow.

And if you read the court cases... those court cases that state it isn't voluntary. The Supreme Court case (first one listed) states it is the law and you can be charged either criminal or civil charges.

It doesn't need to be written. As long as it is a ruling of the Supreme Court, it must be followed. That is the law. And to be honest in those court cases... there is writing, so I'm sure you'll find it written or signed or something (haha sarcasm). If you know your history and government, the Supreme Court can change rulings, or laws, depending on society. And their rulings are the law of all the land, until it is overruled (by themselves), or another law is made overturning it in the Constitution. Even then the S.C. can deem a law unconstitutional.

People will go to jail for not paying taxes. Go for it, and when you go to court appeal the decision all the way to the Supreme Court. And they'll just use Precedent to tell you that this case was already decided, it is not voluntary, and have a nice life in prison.

And before you ask "you still haven't shown me a written law"... read the Internal Revenue Code. That is written, and it is in fact a law. I'm not sure how clearly you want to see it. And Like I said, I know some low blow laws that are laws, but not written directly in the Constitution. That isn't the only place to have laws written. Those are stronger and harder to overturn however, but there are other ways to create laws.

[PMS Anarchy]

Ok so what your saying is its in the Internal Revenue code. Right?


Show me where. Exactly, quote it for me. In the Internal Revenue code Internal Revenue Code §§ 6011(a) , 6012(a) , et seq., and 6072(a). See also Treas. Reg. § 1.6011-1(a), quote me where it is.

Supreme court is the law, but they have also stated that it is NOT the law to pay taxes. Until you quote the tax code as saying it is law, i still stand my ground.


If you feel so strongly that there is a law, i challenge you to go to the IRS or some government official such as a senator or a judge for that matter, ask them where the law is. Even go to your library and ask to see this law. It does not exist. And any government official you ask will deny telling you the information you require. Justify that. Freedom of information act...dead


There are lots of documents showing us how to pay, what to pay, and when to pay it, but nothing NO WHERE that proclaims that we HAVE to pay it by law. By the way, IF you find this information, you might want to contact the New York Times, they have 50,000$ for you.

[PMS HateMaker]

There are some great posts in this thread, and there are also some really obtuse posts in this thread.

I've known about this for years, and watched most of the video links posted in this thread. It's a sad state of affairs we've got going in the world today, and it appears to be getting worse. The majority of Americans are almost completely oblivious to their rights and responsibilities as citizens of this nation. Government "BY the people" suggests you have a responsibility to KNOW the laws you live under and to hold your government accountable when they over-step their boundaries. And before you point to my location and ask what I know about it...I am an American as well, even though I now live in Canada.


1. The Federal Income Taxes you pay in the United States go towards paying down the INTEREST on the debt the nation owes...to international bankers. It doesn't pay for roads, health-care, or any of that infrastructure you think it does. There are a lot of other LEGAL taxes (ie Property Taxes, Corporate Taxes, Sales Taxes) that are used to pay for that infrastructure stuff. The income tax as it is currently enforced is flat-out UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Just because the Supreme Court says you have to doesn't mean squat in my opinion....because the Supreme Court has no authority to overrule the CONSTITUTION.

NOT having a Central Bank (aka the FEDERAL RESERVE) was one of the MAJOR IDEAS this nation was FOUNDED on. Yet, the banks just had to wait for the founding fathers to die off, and the people to get fat and complacent before they could re-institute it. Let me refer you to Thomas Jefferson (the author of the Declaration of Independance):

"If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them,
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered."
--Thomas Jefferson

Kinda seems like this is happening RIGHT NOW doesn't it?

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.
-- Thomas Jefferson

I haven't paid federal or state income tax since 2003, and I never intend to pay it again. "You live in Canada!" you might say, so you would think I wouldn't be expected to pay income tax right? Wrong...the United States is the only nation in the world besides CHINA that expects it's citizens to pay income taxes no matter where in the world they live.

I stopped paying before I left, and I'm not the only one: 67 million Americans currently DO NOT pay taxes. Am I worried about getting in trouble? Not in the least...I'm a patriot and I believe in what our founding fathers tried to do. It's not like I can join the revolution that SHOULD be raging in the states right now...because the populace are too ignorant to care about their rights. So I will make my stand in whatever way that I can.

As far as the National ID or Real ID card...I will not be accepting one of those either. For those in this thread who are going on about "freedom isn't free" and "I have nothing to hide." You should be ashamed of yourselves because that isn't the point at all. Living in a FREE society isn't safe, not if you're truly free.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both. -- Benjamin Franklin

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security. -- Benjamin Franklin

I will not be tagged and marked for identification by my government.

[PMS Anarchy]

A...Freakin..Men O.O

*Bows*

[H2O Creation]

the United States is the only nation in the world besides CHINA that expects it's citizens to pay income taxes no matter where in the world they live.


as i said before i live in england and we're expected to pay income tax, well unless you earn under 3,500 thousand a year (not exact figure).

i got a reply from that law student, not to sure he was interested in getting in on the debate from his answer... he never tried to impress me with any real facts but just sounded like to me to voice his opinion.... well he definately does that...

those that say it's okay to not pay it are relying on 200+ year old statements in the constitution... there's been a hell of a lot of law since saying that you must pay it, including amendments to the constitution, so yeah, they have to pay it or the IRS can take their house and put them in jail. It's basically your redneck anti-government morons that want the state to pay for defence, roads, etc - they just don't want to pay for it.

(not my words anarchy so dont be mad with me!!!)

but carrying on let me just recap... you said you want a law saying that you have to pay income tax doesn't the sixteenth amendment say that...

The 16th Amendment states in its entirety, "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

so what the "tax protestors" are saying that this amendment was never ratified and over half the states in america voted against. so the amendment was left up to question and put on the back shelf never to be resolved. giving them reason to say that income tax is illegal.....

i found this site quite interesting excusing some of the bias... (click on the link to the ad campaign for the tax protestors)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21745

so correct me if i'm wrong the question isn't actually is there a law stating you have to pay taxes. but the question is that the law stated in the 16th amendment is valid or not...?

if so I'm guessing we're not going to find the answer any time soon...

[PMS HateMaker]

as i said before i live in england and we're expected to pay income tax, well unless you earn under 3,500 thousand a year (not exact figure).


You missed the central point of the paragraph that you quoted. I said:the United States is the only nation in the world besides CHINA that expects it's citizens to pay income taxes no matter where in the world they live.

...the pertinent point is bold and italicized. I live in Canada, however as an American citizen I'm still expected to pay taxes in America even though I don't live there...

As far as your friend's "opinion" :

It's basically your redneck anti-government morons that want the state to pay for defence, roads, etc - they just don't want to pay for it.

It sounds to me like he's the moron...the "amendment" to the constitution he refers to was never ratified...aka it doesn't truly exist. We were sold out to the banks by Paul Warburg who falsely reported that it was ratified in 1913.

[H2O Creation]

I will not be tagged and marked for identification by my government.

just a quick question to pms hatemaker but do you have a passport? i'm sure the last time i checked... the passport was a form of tagging by such governments... id cards are just a step up and a great way to combat fraudulent activity...!

[H2O Creation]

so your saying that paul warburg was solely responsible to having that much power to certify that the amendment was ratified... i cant quite believe that somehow. there's got to be more to this story.

my mistake on this bit... sorry!

the United States is the only nation in the world besides CHINA that expects it's citizens to pay income taxes no matter where in the world they live.

[PMS Anarchy]

so your saying that paul warburg was solely responsible to having that much power to certify that the amendment was ratified

The 16th amendment was never ratified. The senate called a meeting for the Amendment when most of the senators were out on Christmas break, and PROMISED those leaving that there would not be anything until they got back. They lied, and 3 Senators voted to pass the bill, but it was never ratified.


just a quick question to pms hatemaker but do you have a passport? i'm sure the last time i checked... the passport was a form of tagging by such governments... id cards are just a step up and a great way to combat fraudulent activity...!

Passports are required to travel, not to stop fraudulent activity. Come to think about it, on that note. Social Security cards are not required either, you do NOT have to have one. You can request that your company not use your social, you dont even have to use it to buy anything. Not required by law :)

[PMS HateMaker]

Of course I have a passport, however the RFID chip in it has been deactivated. Also, no one in the US is required to have a passport or driver's license. It's purely optional. There is a lot of difference between the REAL ID act and ID we currently use.

so your saying that paul warburg was solely responsible to having that much power to certify that the amendment was ratified

Of course not, a lot of people were involved and several events had to occur before that was possible. However, I have no intention of spelling everything out for you. Do your own research...as I have done mine.

[PMS Anarchy]

Hybrid - As a challenge to your lawyer friend. I challenge him/her to find one single piece of solid legislation/law that requires us to pay taxes. I would like the exact page, paragraph line, even a photo if possible. Or even a line in the tax code stating that we are required to pay taxes. Dont throw me any of this 16th amendment bull crap, just cold, hard..facts.

[H2O Creation]

there isn't one and thinking about it thats your whole case... the 16th amendment crap and apparently it's all circumstancial... i should think a case has never been won with this fraudulent amendmant thing... because if it has or does, im sure your government (america would suddenly have alot of payouts to make.... lets think i'm sure everyone whos paid taxes in the last six years would probably want to claim some money back... what would that do to your economy. you might of heard about the court case happening in england recently about the banks overcharging their customers with respect to customer defaults... lets just say all the banks are stalling like hellll... but taxes thats would have a much bigger affect...

[Gypsyfly PMS]

This thread was moved because of references to 9/11 being a possible "set-up". Many of our teammate, friends, and relatives, loved ones, were lost or greatly effected by this event and it's insensitive for anyone to refer to this event as a "set-up" in any shape or form. Despite everything, our country banded together to support each other, and even other nations supported us, so any negative references or anti-government references will not be tolerated.

I edited out any reference to 9/11 that was insensitive and will leave this thread up as long as it remains mature open discussion and does not lean towards anti-government comments. Also leave out referencing our government as terrorists or concentration camps please.

Because no matter how much you are hurting right now economically and socially or whatever your personal opinions may be, this is still our country. And your country will remain your country no matter if it's America, Canada, England, China, India, or whatever. It is what you make it and how you treat the people in it. Our quality of life usually depends on our sole actions and I'm a big fan of personal accountabilities. When we start taking responsibility for certain things, and stop blaming things and people around us, maybe things will change at the very least they will change for us or our family.

I'm all for discussing conspiracy theories and so on, but refrain from any sensitive topics such as 9/11 and try to stick with more of the topic at hand with was paying taxes. Oh, also if any illegal activity is mentioned, the thread will be banked and stay banked.

[H2O Hamlet]

This thread was moved because of references to 9/11 being a possible "set-up". Many of our teammate, friends, and relatives, loved ones, were lost or greatly effected by this event and it's insensitive for anyone to refer to this event as a "set-up" in any shape or form. Despite everything, our country banded together to support each other, and even other nations supported us, so any negative references or anti-government references will not be tolerated.

I edited out any reference to 9/11 that was insensitive and will leave this thread up as long as it remains mature open discussion and does not lean towards anti-government comments. Also leave out referencing our government as terrorists or concentration camps please.

Because no matter how much you are hurting right now economically and socially or whatever your personal opinions may be, this is still our country. And your country will remain your country no matter if it's America, Canada, England, China, India, or whatever. It is what you make it and how you treat the people in it. Our quality of life usually depends on our sole actions and I'm a big fan of personal accountabilities. When we start taking responsibility for certain things, and stop blaming things and people around us, maybe things will change at the very least they will change for us or our family.

I'm all for discussing conspiracy theories and so on, but refrain from any sensitive topics such as 9/11 and try to stick with more of the topic at hand with was paying taxes. Oh, also if any illegal activity is mentioned, the thread will be banked and stay banked.

Thank You

[PMS Anarchy]

Well, i do understand the sensitive nature of this thread, but like i said before, the truth is the truth. I dont think any of us are blaming all of this on any group of people, its a few people, the bankers. In which case have every right to be blamed for all of this, as they started it and are continuing it. But i digress.

And as far as the *Touchy* topic, i too have lost family members. I am greatly saddened by your loss. My heart felt apologies go out to you and yours.

[PMS Rain]

I understand the protection and concern for those who lost and are offended by what has been brought up in this thread. I don't however think the topic and the discussion are disrespectful to such parties affected by the atrocities committed and on going to this day. The issues brought forth by Anarchy and confirmed again by other posters shed light on the real blame. As sad as it may be, that blame is directed at the institutions in place today. The fact is, the truth doesn't attack a country or it's patriots, it attacks the corruption and the puppet masters behind all that has and will happen if nothing is done.

I think referring to the events in the past as a setup isn't an attack on those who were victim but an attack on those to blame. Please keep that clear.

Furthermore, to limit such discussion propels the very issues and realities that this discussion hopes to prevent.

The very talk of this tread sheds light on the fact that acts thought to be illegal are NOT ILLEGAL so this thread doesn't threaten legal grounds either.

Lastly, my country is NOT my country anymore. I am represented by the constitution and the rights thereof. I am NOT represented by the United States of America anymore and I haven't been represented by such a "free" nation for a long time now for it IS NOT FREE.

[PMS HateMaker]

Agree with Rain. I try not to get involved with "serious" posts on the PMS forums because they end up like this...censored. (Not saying censorship is wrong on private forums by the way..the owners of the site are of course welcome to delete/move/censor whatever they see fit and more power to em.)

Speaking frankly about situations is in no way an attack on victims. In fact, the way our nation prefers to collectively bury it's head in the sand and blindly swallow everything we are fed by the media (which was bought and paid for 30 years ago) seems a bigger disservice to the victims of horrible events than trying to figure out what really happened to them.

[PMS Anarchy]

Speaking frankly about situations is in no way an attack on victims. In fact, the way our nation prefers to collectively bury it's head in the sand and blindly swallow everything we are fed by the media (which was bought and paid for 30 years ago) seems a bigger disservice to the victims of horrible events than trying to figure out what really happened to them.

Agreed, but! The media has a unspoken agreement not to report on these issue, this started 40 years ago.

[H2O Creation]

im going to ignore the first bit because i chose not to debate on that topic any longer...
pms rain do you really mean your last paragraph... near your home can children play without fear... can you walk in the street without being harrassed... do you have your bed or place to sleep... i think you should appreciate the freedom you do have because some people will never have that privilege...

[Gypsyfly PMS]

I understand the protection and concern for those who lost and are offended by what has been brought up in this thread. I don't however think the topic and the discussion are disrespectful to such parties affected by the atrocities committed and on going to this day. The issues brought forth by Anarchy and confirmed again by other posters shed light on the real blame. As sad as it may be, that blame is directed at the institutions in place today. The fact is, the truth doesn't attack a country or it's patriots, it attacks the corruption and the puppet masters behind all that has and will happen if nothing is done.

I think referring to the events in the past as a setup isn't an attack on those who were victim but an attack on those to blame. Please keep that clear.

Furthermore, to limit such discussion propels the very issues and realities that this discussion hopes to prevent.

The very talk of this tread sheds light on the fact that acts thought to be illegal are NOT ILLEGAL so this thread doesn't threaten legal grounds either.

Lastly, my country is NOT my country anymore. I am represented by the constitution and the rights thereof. I am NOT represented by the United States of America anymore and I haven't been represented by such a "free" nation for a long time now for it IS NOT FREE.

And that's fine, as long as we make it clear that that's your opinion, just like my opinion is my own and I don't attempt to say that's how things are for everyone.

I'm a born again Christian, believe the Bible, Heaven and Hell, the second coming, and I don't believe the world went poof and now we have monkeys that can read, I'm also a feminist that believes %100 in woman's rights and that there are too many men screwing things up in government and women need to take more control over their lives. Despite my opinions I manage to get along just fine with everyone around me because I know how to talk with people and don't shout from the top of my longs "THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE...YOU BELIEVE IT TOO"

Not saying that you are, just generally speaking. I think most of us can agree the constitution is one of the most well written documents governing the land(along with the documents that it's based on such as the Magna Carta) and the fact is that our government is still based on that constitution, and yes it is the right and obligation of the people to make sure they don't forget that. And no there's nothing wrong with free speech, however this is a public forum that is privately owned and we try to keep it welcome to everyone, if it's not than it's as simple as removing a thread and starting over.

Yup, we get to be judge and jury, good thing it's not the government we're running lol. It's only because I'm a big fan against censorship and free speech that I bought back the thread. So again, your free to speak your mind, just keep it civil, and try to be a little understanding with other forum readers and your H2O and PMS family. Also, note unfortunately no matter what you say or do here or anywhere the only way you're going to create real change is by becoming part of the government some of you seem to detest so much and going out and being active in society by voting and starting organizations and so on.

And to go along with Hybrid, despite our faults..that's the beauty of our country we can speak our mind and the majority of us can sleep in our beds in comfort without the fear of major attacks. Oh, and woman can reject or marry who they want without fear of being publicly executed by stoning or mutilated because of "traditions".

/end going back to work

[PMS HateMaker]

Also, note unfortunately no matter what you say or do here or anywhere the only way you're going to create real change is by becoming part of the government some of you seem to detest so much and going out and being active in society by voting and starting organizations and so on.


I don't believe becoming a part of this government would change anything, and I don't believe voting would change anything. It may give the illusion of change...but it's only an illusion. The only thing I think (please note emphasis) would bring about real change is revolution...which to quote the movie JFK is "healthy now and again."

[PMS Anarchy]

^ I concur. Completely.

[Gypsyfly PMS]

I don't believe becoming a part of this government would change anything, and I don't believe voting would change anything. It may give the illusion of change...but it's only an illusion. The only thing I think (please note emphasis) would bring about real change is revolution...which to quote the movie JFK is "healthy now and again."

...and with that I quote the Beatles: "we all want to change the world" It's never ending and their ain't nothin wrong with that. My way, your way, his way, her way, whatever way I wish you luck. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87yq372R4Ts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87yq372R4Ts)

[PMS Anarchy]

Well....Now that Planet X has been found, i think it will end...soon. But, best of luck :) Im all stocked up for it hehe

[PMS MelonZ]

So far i've only seen a couple people that really know what they're talking about. I don't think you really "inform" yourself by watching propaganda on the internet. But if that's what gets you going, then go ahead and fight for it.

Even though i don't frequent myself in politics i've at least understood the reason for paying taxes. and this :

The Law: The requirement to pay taxes is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in section 1 of the Internal Revenue Code, which imposes a tax on the taxable income of individuals, estates, and trusts as determined by the tables set forth in that section. (Section 11 imposes a tax on the taxable income of corporations.) Furthermore, the obligation to pay tax is described in section 6151 , which requires taxpayers to submit payment with their tax returns. Failure to pay taxes could subject the noncomplying individual to criminal penalties, including fines and imprisonment, as well as civil penalties.

Really isn't too hard to grasp. Its voluntary in the sense that its up to you to present the figures as truth. You don't HAVE to claim everything, but really, you should. If you feel you're being ripped off, as stated before then take it upon yourself to do your taxes well.

I'd rather pay my taxes then be accused in court of not knowing how the earth spins.

But, bah, i don't like these kinda debates, no one will consent to another's argument.

[H2O Bunnys]

Passports are required to travel, not to stop fraudulent activity. Come to think about it, on that note. Social Security cards are not required either, you do NOT have to have one. You can request that your company not use your social, you dont even have to use it to buy anything. Not required by law :)

Well Social Security Cards may not be required but depending on what you do, you do need them. For example i have an account with Navy Federal, and inorder to set up my online account so i can view my balance, it is required to have the last 4 digits on my Social Security Card.

Anyways im going to stay neutral on this subject and just say that this is quite an interesting read lol.

[PMS Anarchy]

The Law: The requirement to pay taxes is not voluntary and is clearly set forth in section 1 of the Internal Revenue Code, which imposes a tax on the taxable income of individuals, estates, and trusts as determined by the tables set forth in that section. (Section 11 imposes a tax on the taxable income of corporations.) Furthermore, the obligation to pay tax is described in section 6151 , which requires taxpayers to submit payment with their tax returns. Failure to pay taxes could subject the noncomplying individual to criminal penalties, including fines and imprisonment, as well as civil penalties.

Really isn't too hard to grasp. Its voluntary in the sense that its up to you to present the figures as truth. You don't HAVE to claim everything, but really, you should. If you feel you're being ripped off, as stated before then take it upon yourself to do your taxes well.

Well once again, its not a law. Second of all, and once again, if it is voluntary why do we go to prison.


I think what i am really trying to get at and NO ONE has answered my questions, everyone just dodges them. If ANYONE could answer these questions, i would be greatly appreciative.


1) Show me where the law is, if there is one. I want actual proof, not the line people are using that its voluntary, or even referencing the Internal Revenue Code, as it only tells you how and what to pay, not that you HAVE to pay.

2) If it IS voluntary to pay, then why are we getting placed in prison for something that is voluntary?

[PMS Anarchy]

Well Social Security Cards may not be required but depending on what you do, you do need them. For example i have an account with Navy Federal, and inorder to set up my online account so i can view my balance, it is required to have the last 4 digits on my Social Security Card.

Anyways im going to stay neutral on this subject and just say that this is quite an interesting read lol.


And no, its not required. There is also no law requiring you to have your SS or even a Drivers License. Alot of businesses, and even the military like to require it, but in all actuality its not. You can provide them with a form which you can download offline that basically says you are practicing your right not to use one, and they have to agree.

[naturaL)]

this is really intense, and its fun seeing both point of views.

[H2O Bunnys]

this is really intense, and its fun seeing both point of views.

comon waffles i want to see your opinion being that your a breakfast meal lol ive already said im staying neutral, but anarchy brings up quite afew good points but then again so do others.

[naturaL)]

my opinion is pointless unless I'm taking action.

[PMS Solincia]

My grandmother's SS card <she was born in 21> says "Not for use as Identification"....they don't say that anymore.

When I was in highschool <early 90's> they started asking for our SS#. My mother told me "absolutely not!" and wanted to know what they wanted that for.

Does anyone know exactly when, or what law, changed the use of the social security card into a form of personal identification?

Again, I don't exactly mind all of this... I have nothing to hide.
I'm just curious when that changed, since we're on the topic.

[H2O Creation]

do you think that your social secruity card is the same as our national insurance card here in the uk... because here you cant get a job legally without the number thats on the card... as we pay national insurance through our wages...

[H2O Creation]

The only thing I think (please note emphasis) would bring about real change is revolution...which to quote the movie JFK is "healthy now and again."

stating the obvious don't we think... of course revolution will have a sudden impact on society, but not always for the good, who knows which way the fire will lead... its a very risky way of creating a fresh start. you may think that going through the correct channels changes nothing, but you'll find that your quite wrong, it really does if your part of the majority. it just takes time, it could take a decade before we see differences. eventually things will be apparent and you'll then be glad that you haven't blown your own country up in the process.

[PMS Anarchy]

Does anyone know exactly when, or what law, changed the use of the social security card into a form of personal identification?

There's no law for Social Security cards, they pretty much (forgive my vagueness) just up and demanded people use them as identification :\

you may think that going through the correct channels changes nothing, but you'll find that your quite wrong, it really does if your part of the majority

The majority of the population now knows whats going on, and is all for a revolution as it really is the only way to go. We have been fighting this for a while now, going through the correct channels and getting nipped in the butt. We played fair, and we got shafted.

it just takes time, it could take a decade before we see differences.

The NWO which stands for New World Order, which is in legislation, will complete its take over in less than 5 days. I AM NOT SAYING IN 5 DAYS FROM TODAY THE NWO WILL TAKE OVER. I am just saying, when they do, and it is projected soon, they will complete their take over in 5 days. So if they are prepared enough to take the world over in 5 days, i don't think we should sit back and wait for things to change.

*Edit to add*
Read up on the Omega Agency if you don't believe me.


I really do encourage you all to read up on the NWO and Planet X, all these things that are a threaten to the WHOLE WORLD, not just the USA. Seems like people are not getting the point here. Its not just the USA, its every where. You may not see it, but we do, and we are trying to help you see it as well. If you don't believe me, that is fine. Your subject to your own opinion and i respect that. But learning does not hurt you, educate yourself. See for yourself what is going on.

[H2O Creation]

I'm so sorry but I don't think I have laughed so much in a long time... seriously planet x, nwo... i'm sorry they must be on some cable channel I don't have....

[PMS Anarchy]

I'm so sorry but I don't think I have laughed so much in a long time... seriously planet x, nwo... i'm sorry they must be on some cable channel I don't have....

Or its in the documents laid out in your local Library. You can laugh all you want, but instead of laughing you should be educating yourself. History has a way of smiting people that laugh at seemingly dumb situations that actually happen. Once again, laugh or educate yourself, either one wont hurt.


But hey, people can request this thread to be closed for reasons, can i have it closed cause your laughing at me? Im offended, call the police o.0

[naturaL)]

anarchy really lives up to the name . . ;p

[H2O Creation]

But hey, people can request this thread to be closed for reasons, can i have it closed cause your laughing at me? Im offended, call the police o.0
_________

im sorry i never meant to offend you in anyway, if it means any thing today at work i was feeling a little guilty... but come on when you said planet x, it sounded like a joke. never really heard of it.... when asking around today no one else had heard of it either. so i searched on google and a found a five part doc. on you tube... interesting but again are we really all going to die in 2012. if this thing has been orbiting around our sun for many many years... why are we not dead all ready... i just dont think theres enough geological evidence to support this theory...

(back off police the situation is under control!!!)

[H2O Creation]

anarchy really lives up to the name . . ;p

i was just thinking that too... :)

[GrandPhoenix]

there are some things that you HAVE to be taxed for like medicare, etc. but every one of my jobs I've been to, I've just signed 'tax exempt' and that way, they can't take anything from me except for FICA, MEDFICA, FED WTH (Federal withholdings) and state tax which is like... not much. (They took $10 from my $500 paycheck) And it's going to me anyways sooo... GG. I don't get a refund check tho buttttt... I get to keep what they'd take anyway so I win!

And it really IS an invisible law. My dad has some crazy video on it that "THEY DONT WANT YOU TO SEE" that I brought into my business class one day and I got in trouble for but idc. It's not like it's a big deal. Most people aren't even going to listen. Most people don't want to believe that there's "conspiracies" and secret societies and people doing stuff that they don't want you to know about so they just reject it.

[H2O Creation]

My dad has some crazy video on it that

is this video watchable on the internet

[PMS Anarchy]

im sorry i never meant to offend you in anyway, if it means any thing today at work i was feeling a little guilty... but come on when you said planet x, it sounded like a joke. never really heard of it.... when asking around today no one else had heard of it either. so i searched on google and a found a five part doc. on you tube... interesting but again are we really all going to die in 2012. if this thing has been orbiting around our sun for many many years... why are we not dead all ready... i just dont think theres enough geological evidence to support this theory...

Oh its perfectly fine, i was just kidding :P It does sound all crazy and what not, i know it does :P But i am not afraid to look crazy to get the word out! :). Also, as far as 2012, here is an interesting tid bit. The Mayan calendar is hailed as the most accurate calendar to date. It predicted the 9/11 attacks, and a lot more frighting things. You should look it up! They also predicted that at the end of the year 2012, the world would end.

anarchy really lives up to the name . . ;p

I take this as a compliment ;)

is this video watchable on the internet

Well i posted a link to a very good documentary on it in my first post, i suggest you read that ;)

[Gypsyfly PMS]

Or its in the documents laid out in your local Library. You can laugh all you want, but instead of laughing you should be educating yourself. History has a way of smiting people that laugh at seemingly dumb situations that actually happen. Once again, laugh or educate yourself, either one wont hurt.


But hey, people can request this thread to be closed for reasons, can i have it closed cause your laughing at me? Im offended, call the police o.0

I'm not sure but that reads like veiled sarcasm or a dig on someone who had a valid reason for requesting the thread removed cause...I really can't tell, I have the best sense of humor on this forum, but I'm not laughing.

[H2O Creation]

I'm not sure but that reads like veiled sarcasm or a dig on someone who had a valid reason for requesting the thread removed cause...I really can't tell, I have the best sense of humor on this forum, but I'm not laughing.

i can see how you may of got her intentions confused, but i can honestly say anarchy never meant it in that way... anarchy was having a dig at me relating to this comment

I'm so sorry but I don't think I have laughed so much in a long time... seriously planet x, nwo... i'm sorry they must be on some cable channel I don't have....

which i apologised after feeling a little guilty. where anarchy graciously accepted....

anarchy i'm about half way through the video you posted and i've come to the decision that we can not except the documentary in anyway. on the bounds of that it is full of bias. a true documentary should be presented by someone who is neutral, no opinion should be made by such person. in this documentary the presenter constantly harrases his interviewee's. no wonder no one will talk to him i know i certainly wouldn't...

[PMS Anarchy]

I'm not sure but that reads like veiled sarcasm or a dig on someone who had a valid reason for requesting the thread removed cause...I really can't tell, I have the best sense of humor on this forum, but I'm not laughing.

Cha...it was a joke.


anarchy i'm about half way through the video you posted and i've come to the decision that we can not except the documentary in anyway. on the bounds of that it is full of bias. a true documentary should be presented by someone who is neutral, no opinion should be made by such person. in this documentary the presenter constantly harrases his interviewee's. no wonder no one will talk to him i know i certainly wouldn't...

Yea i thought the same thing :P, but i also was surprised by some of the reactions of the government officials more than anything. Thats what sparked by interest and i began to read. :)

[naturaL)]

i don't think this thread should be closed. its just anarchy's opinion. i may agree with it, but at the same time i understand we are too deep into this forced system ... sigh!

hmm hellboy 2, tonight at midnight on a HUGE HD screen.

going to be fun.

[PMS Anarchy]

Lol ^

[Vendetta]

I'm glad this is getting more talk than it is on other forums we placed it sis, but about your NWO and Planet X, those scare me....

I learned about the NWO a long time ago...and to behonest, it is not something I'd want. It's almost a perfect form of communism.....but inorder to creat the commuism that Marx wanted, you need a utiopia....and Everyone has aggreed, that is impossible with the human population, they can never live in peace and harmony. So if this NWO ever did come into existance, the world will destroy itself, that is inevidable.

[H2O Creation]

Yea i thought the same thing :P

hold on anarchy quick get a camera i think we just agreed on something...

but inorder to creat the commuism that Marx wanted, you need a utiopia

to be more precise vendetta, marx's theory was all to do revolution... he said that first there had to be capitalists or functionalists if you like, then revolution had to occur, to be then ruled by communism... if the revolution from capitalists to communism never occured a better standard of living would not exist... for example look at china and russia...

And New world Order, i cant see the world been over run by communists any time soon...
not even a world government... i think the closest you 'll get to that is the g8 summit unless you want to count the european commissioner so then that would make it the g9 summit...what do they discuss... environmental issues, famine, or do they..... wahahahaha.... no I SHALL take over the world!!!

[PMS Anarchy]

And New world Order, i cant see the world been over run by communists any time soon...
not even a world government... i think the closest you 'll get to that is the g8 summit unless you want to count the european commissioner so then that would make it the g9 summit...what do they discuss... environmental issues, famine, or do they..... wahahahaha.... no I SHALL take over the world!!!

Not communists, bankers :\. And as i said before, its already in legislation, its already here. Reeeaaaddddddddddddd!

[H2O Creation]

Not communists, bankers :\. And as i said before, its already in legislation, its already here. Reeeaaaddddddddddddd!

i did read, look at vandettas comments

I learned about the NWO a long time ago...and to behonest, it is not something I'd want. It's almost a perfect form of communism

[PMS Anarchy]

Well the way they run may be communism i guess, good point. Its just the fact that it's not going to be this large group of officials, its the economic elite.