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Maxman
04-18-2008, 03:48 AM
http://www.ozhardware.com.au/images/stories/Article%20Images/XPVISTACOMP/vistaxpsmall.jpg

Even before Windows Vista was publicly released, there was a lot of concern from people beta testing the O/S. Running Windows Vista seemed to have a large performance drop for their PC when compared to Windows XP. Was it true? Or is it just scare tactics from Microsoft haters?

It is widely known that you need a much faster PC to run Vista than you do to run Windows XP. Microsoft recommend a minimum of a 1Ghz CPU and 1GB of RAM to run anything better than Vista Home Basic (I.e. Home Premium, Business or Ultimate) , and a Directx9 capable video card. I would hate to try and run Vista on a 1Ghz CPU, it would just be painfully slow. So when specing-up your new machine, make sure you at least double the minimum recommended RAM and CPU speed, have a dedicated PCI-Ex16 video card with 128MB of RAM or more, and you will be fine. If your video card supports DirectX9, you should even be able to run Aero.

Vista may include a host of new features, look a whole lot better and tingle your inner geek in all the right places, but most people just want their games to run smoothly, their office applications to open quickly and run without fuss, and the internet to be as fast as possible, so why would you upgrade to an operating system that will serve only to slow you down? Well we’re going to run a few quick tests to either prove or dispel the rumours.

What we’ve done is setup a high-spec machine, and we’re going to do a standard load of Windows XP Professional SP2, run our benchmarks, then a standard load of Windows Vista Ultimate and perform the same tests. The graphics tests will be run using 3DMark06, which runs on DirectX 9, not DirectX 10 as is written into Vista, so whilst it won’t be as true a comparison of possible performance as we would like, it is the best we can do at the moment, and tests current 3D software, which is what matters. 2D application tests will be performed by PCMark05. Whilst these are both ‘artificial’ benchmarks as it were, they perform a wide variety of tests, with 3DMark simulating current and future game rendering systems, and PCMark simulating everything from rendering web pages, to 3D Performance, 2D Image rendering and Hard Disk usage, all in one neat package.

Test Machine Specs:

ASUS Striker Extreme nForce680i SLI Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 CPU
Corsair TWIN2X6400 2GB DDR-2 Memory Kit
2 x Gigabyte GeForce 8800GTX 768MB PCI-Ex16 Video Cards running SLI
Western Digital Raptor 150GB 10,000rpm SATA-II Hard Drive
OCZ GameXstream 850W ATX Power Supply

Certainly a bit higher-end than most home or office PCs, but this will allow us to run much more intense tests and be able to spot any differences more easily.

The Results:

For 3DMark06 we ran 3 different tests, one with the video cards in SLI mode, one using only a single video card, and another in SLI mode using 8x Anti-Aliasing to try to see if there’s more of a difference when the 3D system is pushed hard. All tests were performed at a resolution of 1280x1024.

http://www.ozhardware.com.au/images/stories/Article%20Images/XPVISTACOMP/3dmark06.jpg

As you can see above, there is around a 5% performance increase using Windows XP under both SLI tests, the single card test showed a negligible difference, but still in favour of old-hat XP.

There were a few tests within 3DMark that showed a massive difference between the O/S’s, specifically the shader tests. The simple Vertex Shader test showed almost a 50% drop in performance under Vista, with XP running 369Million Vertices/sec versus 186MV/s under Vista. The shader particles test also showed Vista had a 25% drop from XP, and the pixel shader test a 15% drop in performance.

3DMark also performs Batch Size tests of moving triangle systems, starting with 8 triangles and moving up with 32, 128, 512, 2048 and finally 32768.

http://www.ozhardware.com.au/images/stories/Article%20Images/XPVISTACOMP/3dmbatchtest.jpg

This test demonstrates graphics card memory throughput by testing how many triangles per second can be drawn. In these tests both versions of Windows improve at close to the same rate as the batch size increases, until (as you can see on the graph above) Vista seems to hit a wall, indicating a big problem with memory throughput under Vista. Hopefully this is only a driver issue that can be fixed by nVidia in the future.

Onto PCMark05:

In PCMark, the tests were run at a resolution of 1280x1024, with the video cards in SLI mode.

http://www.ozhardware.com.au/images/stories/Article%20Images/XPVISTACOMP/pcmark.jpg

We can see an overall performance decrease of about 15% in Vista compared to XP, and when looking through the results, the main culprits are the graphics memory tests, where XP was a massive 11 TIMES Better than Vista!!! XP was able to pass through 3600frames per second compared to Vista’s lowly 312FPS. Again, hopefully future driver releases can help fix this issue, as that’s just pathetic.

Video playback of a WMV file also suffered greatly under Vista, giving just 30.8FPS compared to 69.1FPS under XP. This means Vista would struggle to do anything else while a WMV video is playing, quite poor really considering the hardware we’re testing on.

HDD performance was generally better on XP, but only by a few % barely worth a mention really. The only areas Vista excelled in were rendering transparent windows (i.e. like the Aero theme) and audio decompression. For transparent windows, Vista beats XP almost 4-fold, with 2671windows/sec under Vista, to 713windows/sec under XP. Microsoft has obviously optimised this process quite well for Vista to make the Aero theme run smoothly. Audio decompression was twice as good under Vista, working at 2665KB/s compared to 1371KB/s under XP. Unfortunately audio compression is the same under both, so you won’t be able to rip your CDs to MP3’s any faster.

Conclusion:

Vista definitely seems to have a few performance issues at the moment, yet certainly has the potential to be a great performer in the future. We can see from the few tests that Vista has been optimised for, it performed brilliantly, so when games, applications and drivers are made for DirectX10, we may see a big performance increase across the board, well we can hope can’t we?

If you’re into your games I’d hold off upgrading for now, until there is better driver support from the motherboard and video card manufacturers, and until games have DirectX10 support, as the visual improvements are meant to be a giant leap forward. For the meantime we can only hope that upcoming drivers will fix the issues that exist within Vista, but only time will tell.

TechIsCool
04-19-2008, 04:40 PM
Here is my two cents with a quote

"It seems like Vista is quickly turning out to be like the new Star Wars movies, while XP represents the original trilogy. The people who weren't raised on the old trilogy didn't find the new movies all that bad. The fans that have seen and cherished the old trilogy know how good things can be, and know what an aberration the new movies are.”

H2O sobe
04-19-2008, 04:59 PM
I will make this statement, I do prefer the Vista layout and structure compared to that of XP. However, there is no denying that WindowsXP outperforms Vista.

I started out on DOS, and moving to Windows 3.1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1) was great :P And I liked the future versions from 3.1, 95, 98se, 2000, but refused to switch to ME. Vista I do like, I just want to be able to get the full performance from games as possible. When Vista fixes these issues, I will most likely make the switch.

NmE Seth
04-19-2008, 05:13 PM
Yeah, its too bad you can't find XP in stores, you gotta order it special online.

I"m trying to talk my bro into buying a gaming laptop so I can get his old desktop (XP)

His reason for not doing it atm is "I don't want to carry a gaming laptop around college"
He wants to buy a mac and game on his PC =/

H2O Snake
04-19-2008, 07:39 PM
Everytime a new OS comes out it runs slower then the previous OS because it adds more features that requires more hardware. When technology catches up to the OS it becomes the norm. We did the same thing when XP came out, and 2000, etc.

NmE Seth
04-19-2008, 08:14 PM
Yeah, its that and a lot of programs aren't really compitable with the new OS.

I can see it becoming the norm. I really like the over-all layout, but I'm sooooo use to XP, I grew up with windows 2000-then Xp once I really got into computers and how to fix n stuff.

I use a program that makes my computer look like a vista, but its not, its XP. xD

PHiNiX
04-20-2008, 01:23 AM
personal experiance

i have every operating system running in my house right now, and my personal preferance is vista over all. why do i choose it other then the fact my job requires it....i take out all the pretty useless stuff and i love how it works compared to xp.. i know that it sucks up resources like nothing. but i like it especially compared to mac osx, so much easier

and for the people why say. "im used to xp" there is no differance other then apperance when it comes to the way you use it

Maxman
04-20-2008, 05:49 AM
For more information as to Windows Timeline, please visit: http://www.levenez.com/windows/

TechIsCool
04-21-2008, 07:16 PM
Someone Needs to get a life not you but that time line oh my

PHiNiX
04-21-2008, 08:40 PM
who ever made that timeline looks like a fanboy, or someone who dosent have a day job, unless that is there day job then wow

IRonCanucK
04-21-2008, 08:57 PM
Hey all I can say is thanks for the heads up Maxman, but all I know is taht u can't really bring any of teh old games onto vista, which blows

Maxman
04-22-2008, 05:07 AM
Everytime a new OS comes out it runs slower then the previous OS because it adds more features that requires more hardware. When technology catches up to the OS it becomes the norm. We did the same thing when XP came out, and 2000, etc.

Fully agreed...

theb0lt
05-06-2008, 12:07 AM
What kind of computer did you run these on lol?
I run vista ultimate and I get about 120 fps more then SLI in xp, and as far as performance goes. Vista has far superior memory handling due to precaching which lowers latency in between memory intensive programs, which XP didn't even begin to properly use. People complain so much about vista, they did the same thing with xp. Tweak it and use the right custom drivers and from bench marks between xp and vista ultimate it's a huge leap in performance on my machine.

Maxman
05-06-2008, 01:51 AM
What kind of computer did you run these on lol?
I run vista ultimate and I get about 120 fps more then SLI in xp, and as far as performance goes. Vista has far superior memory handling due to precaching which lowers latency in between memory intensive programs, which XP didn't even begin to properly use. People complain so much about vista, they did the same thing with xp. Tweak it and use the right custom drivers and from bench marks between xp and vista ultimate it's a huge leap in performance on my machine.

We don't understand what you're actually talking about? 120 fps more than SLI in xp? How you'd be able to prove it? Have you ever worked / tested 3d Mark or related performance testing application? If "yes", then post the comparison chart / results as to performance, differentiating Vista with XP. If "no", then how we’d be able to make / determine the sound foundation as to selection of ideal platform desired by an extreme gamer?

H2O sobe
05-06-2008, 03:03 PM
Well, let's just put it like this, Microsoft even claimed it a disaster. Which is why next year we will see another OS.... Yea, so soon. Or at least according to Microsoft.

Vista has better memory handling with it's more engineered development features in the structure of the OS. But, I'd want to see your setup with pictures of realtime benchmarks from 3dmark 06 and a few games in both XP Pro and Vista.

Maxman
05-06-2008, 07:36 PM
Please visit and test your own mobo: http://www.yougamers.com/gameometer/10164/

Stasis
05-27-2008, 04:00 AM
I don't understand why people hate vista so much

bugs my ass, I haven't encountered a single one of the so called vista bugs
I guess they're just in the extremely low end builds

also 30 fps? wtf? I'm rendering 1080p on an 8800gt and a phenom 9500 30 fps with about 15% cpu usage

Maxman
06-08-2008, 02:27 AM
Nobody hates Vista. I'm even using the same on my personal notebook as well as on my office's desktop pc 'cause of higher level of security, encryption and stability of backoffice applications...

=s5a= Shadowmaster
06-27-2008, 05:03 AM
I know this might be a dead issue, but I would like to add my two cents in here. I worked for CompUSA for a while before it went to crap and down the crapper. I have owned every OS made by Microsoft, and the only few that did everything they promised it would do were DOS, windows 95, and XP. Here's why:

3.1 was no real big change
98 had too many holes in programming and is easier to crack
2000 was like 98 with a face lift
ME sucked balls
NT was even worse and flopped 2 weeks after it was released
Vista was the first OS to not be based whatsoever on DOS


People who tested the Beta for it didn't have a problem because it was completely different that what it actually is. The Beta was actually exactly the way Windows 7 is going to be, and everyone loved it, everything worked perfectly, and loved the new style pf menus. Then, Microsoft screwed it up completely. I remember when it first came out for public purchase. Not even quicktime would work properly. Most of the time it just wouldn't work, and when it did, it woud make it half way through a song and then "unexpectedly" quit. Now, It is kind of sad when an OS can't even handle quicktime. This problem and others were not fixed until at least the 5th update. That was due in part to the fact that the new OS was cracked in 4 days, because the "innovative" new code that XP was partially based on made it so easy to access everything. Think about it like 2142 vs COD4. 2142 has crappy programming, which is why you cnostantly have to have a bunch of admins on a sever to ensure no one is hacking, and PBBans does nothing on 2142 because of crappy programming. You have to do almost nothing on COD4 because PBBans does 99.9% of the work for you. It works the way it should because the coding for the game was done halfway descent.

Now, why would I choose an OS that updates its security all the time because it is so horrible for anything having to do with not being broken into. Why would I Put myself and my files, personal docs, and other docs I have been entrusted with by others for work to an OS that was cracked 4 days after it came out? Why would I constantly listen to excuses by Microsoft as to why things dont work like I did with ME, NT, 2000 and 98 instead of going with the tried and true? And why, God why, would I ever trust what Microsoft says about any of the programs? Vista says you have to have at least 1GB to have anything run properly, that's true if you're only going to surf the net. You need at least 1GB for the OS, another gig for all the crap running in the background as there is more of it than XP has, then at least another 2 for any games Microsoft has running on their OS. So why will I not get Vista? Because Vista is the zenith of a PC OS.

Any PC OS has so many other things running in the background that Microsoft "believes" you want running to make things easier for you. Now, some or most of you may not like MAC, but what it says is running is all that is running. That's the beauty of MAC; no extras running you don't know about. No "Windows Explorer.exe" bs. Their OS doesn't need a .exe file to run the OS as if you were running a seperate program, it runs directly. That's it. I for one am personally loving the fact that originally Vista was supposed to be it, everything ran on Vista and if you didn't have it, too bad, but now everything is made for Vista and XP. I am also loving the fact that Microsoft acknowledged the fact that Vista sucks by coming out with Screen shots of Windows 7 coming out next year. Vista hasn't even run thew same lifespan as Windows ME did.

So why not Vista? Two words; IT SUCKS

PHiNiX
06-29-2008, 06:00 PM
um when xp came out no one liked it, and it had alot of bugs...give it time.

Mysterio
06-29-2008, 06:26 PM
I'm on vista it's perfectly fine. I can understand people not wanting to touch it though been a new OS and all. Since service pack 1 i've noticed less memory usage too :)

=s5a= Shadowmaster
06-29-2008, 06:44 PM
Yea but I dont have to give it time, Microsoft is coming out with a new OS next year. So obviously they gave up on it

GrandPhoenix
07-04-2008, 10:56 AM
omfg kent read charts!! What does it all MEAN, Basill? All I've heard is that Vista makes games look extra sexy with DirectX10 but causes more problems for gamers than is necessary and there's an issue with memory leak and that people should just wait until 2010 for Windows to release their new OS and then they'll probably do to Vista what they did with DOS and Millenium Edition and out it, then doubt its existance all together :mvshock:

Pandabaa
07-28-2008, 08:46 PM
Heres my 2 worthless cents. Vista is like a crappy XP in it's current configuration. All of XP's awsome tools are in Vista, just buried somewhere in the somewhat confusing "User Friendly" interface. Additionally one needs to turn off a plethora of useless services to improve gaming performance. I hope that Vista becomes better with time like a good whiskey, but the OS was put into circulation way too early.:mvshakefist:

H2O sobe
07-29-2008, 01:22 AM
Well, I just made the full switch to Vista Business 64-bit. Namely due to DX10, future titles, MS support, and 4GB+ -.-

During original installation it seemed a little glitchy and such like I noticed before, but after installing SP1 that seems to have vanished... Also with installation of SP1 I noticed an FPS gain similar to XP Pro in games. I believe I still got a little more in XP, but after SP1 the difference is marginal. I will say kudos to MS until they finish fixing the other small bugs.

PMS RedZulu
08-01-2008, 12:25 PM
So I am looking to upgrade my machine, or get a completely new one. I want to update for some new games coming out that require more power. :) :D

The machines come with Vista but you can buy XP if you want. I plan on using a site that lets you specify what you want when you build it.

www.cyberpowerpc.com is the website

I might post what the spec I am looking at are if anyone wants to give me advice. I want to be able to play Spore and other higher end games on it.

x SexyPink x
08-01-2008, 03:17 PM
I use vista 32 bit for my laptop and it works fine. The only problem with xp now is that microsoft will no longer come out with updates for xp.

TwizztiD
08-02-2008, 06:06 AM
I got vista 64 ultimate and Iv never ran into any bugs or crashes I can blame solely on vista. iv been using it for about 2-3 months now

Draxxus_Dragun
08-09-2008, 10:16 PM
As an associate at Circuit City I have people all the time(self proclaimed techs and pc gurus alike) get up set cause all we have are vista machines. Its really quite funny. I typically just smile and tell them I have vista home premium on a Intel 1.7 dual core and 1 gig of memory and I never have any problems. They usually look at me slightly dumbstruck! The only compatibility issue I have had in the years and a half that i have owned it was when i tried installing my copy of castle wolfienstien from like 1995. I like my vista Laptop.

PHiNiX
08-09-2008, 10:37 PM
windows 7 is just an updated vista with a differant name..and i like my vista laptop. photoshop dosnt but i do. i really dont have any problems im running an amd 64 x2 and a gig of ram..soon to upgrade to 2...and i really dont have any problems that i didnt have on xp..it does use more resources then xp but that's to be expected when things evolve. same things happened when people started using xp.. people said it uses to much then things started to evolve next thing you know people were running 512mb of ram. and know 1g is the standard.....for the most part


and windows 7 isnt coming for another 3 years. so you got a bit. i think its set date is sometime in 2010

Maxman
08-10-2008, 09:09 AM
and windows 7 isnt coming for another 3 years. so you got a bit. i think its set date is sometime in 2010

Fully agreed...

H2O sobe
08-10-2008, 07:55 PM
2 things I'd like to address.

First off, CyberPower PC was mentioned, I highly advise just building the pc yourself from parts you'd get from an eTailor such as NewEgg.com, Frys.com, ZipZoomFly.com, etc. I have had a lot of people come to me due to issues software wise and hardware wise coming from CyberPower, within the 1st months of use.

Secondly, in all utter honesty here, if your computer has under 4GB, I wouldnt worry about Vista.... To get the 32-bit version and limit yourself to an amount of under 4GB for future builds, is quite ignorant. This not applying to those prebuilt laptops/pcs if you don't or refuse to build yourself due to worry about messing something up.

My honest opinion, nothing more. Which I bring up due to the growing amount of RAM in prebuilts today, grabbing 6GB or more, as well as more and more people building rigs of 4-8GB these days, if not more.

PHiNiX
08-10-2008, 08:43 PM
having more then 3 gigs is a waste if your not going to use it.

H2O sobe
08-11-2008, 01:57 AM
Ah now that is actually not true ;)

http://www.corsairmemory.com/_appnotes/AN804_Gaming_Performance_Analysis.pdf

Take a peek at that.

As well as the simple fact that if you use heavy load programs and multitask between them, example being multitasking between sound editing software, video editing software, photoshop, dreamweaver, and possibly even 3D Studio Max or another 3d modeling and rendering program. Something I myself do on a regular basis, though I also tend to have streaming music running with a game running.


Oh and just so you know, Windows 7 is slated for a release in 2009, January 2010 at the latest. That is the current estimate.

PHiNiX
08-11-2008, 04:59 PM
thats what i said...you dont need it if you dont use it. i have a gig on my laptop right now. and i happen to never have a problem with listining to music playing a game/being in photoshop so two gigs would be nice to have but i really dont do enough to "need" it but i am upgrading