A new graphics card.

[JokeDeity]

I need help from someone who's pretty tech savvy. I'm looking to get a new graphics card, but I have little knowledge of them myself in terms of which direction I should be heading.

Currently I have an HP Pavilion a1610n. With everything that it came based with except that I've upgraded the RAM to 3 gigs instead of the one.

I'm looking for something not too expensive as I'm piss poor, but I understand that I'm not going to get anything good cheaply.

So if anyone who knows a bit about this stuff can tell me a good card to upgrade with it'd be a lot of help.

[H2O Niz3l]

what are you trying to do with the new card? just play games, watch videos ???

[JokeDeity]

Play higher end graphics games is my goal. I've been looking at the off brand GeForce 9800s, are they any good?

[Nakashige H2O]

i have a good feeling that none of those cards would fit into that case length wise can u take photos of the inside and give messerments

[H2O Raiden]

Take photos of the case, and provide a list of specifications (Motherboard, including socket types for processor and whether or not it is PCI-e..), including all current major components. Please.

Edit: Got this off your xfire.. with the exception of the RAM, is it correct?

Manufacturer:
HP Pavilion 061
Processor:
AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+, MMX, 3DNow (2 CPUs), ~2.2GHz
Memory:
958MB RAM
Hard Drive:
240 GB
Video Card:
NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE
Sound Card:
Realtek HD Audio rear output
Operating System:
Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.070227-2254)

If so, you might want to look at more than just a video upgrade. I'm on a higher end AMD Processor than that, and have dual (SLi) 7900GTO/GTX's.. my processor is my bottleneck right now.

[Nakashige H2O]

that cpu will be about to play a game like crisys on medium settings with a 8800 gts the older one

[JokeDeity]

That's basically all right, except I have Media Center Edition, not Professional...weird.

So, which do you think is more important for me to get for gaming? Processor or GFX card?

[H2O sobe]

Depends, some games are vid card intensive and others are cpu intensive. Source for instance is rather cpu intensive compared to vid intensive.

If you have any of the currently available AMD procs aside from the Phenom series, you will get a bottleneck in anything higher than a 7600GT or 7800GT. If you get an 8series card, your performance on the AMD system, such as a 4200+ will be of less than a 7900GT. You'd need an Intel Core2Duo proc overclocked to 3.6GHz or higher to get the true performance from an 8series.

Also, I don't recommend the 9series cards, they suffer from issues at the moment.. At least with the 9600GT. The 9800 is pointless to get as it's an overclocked 8800GTS (G92).


Intel Core2Duo E8400 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037) - Current "best bang for buck with performance/value"

And for vid card,
eVGA nVidia GeForce 8800GT 512 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130318)

or

eVGA nVidia GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130337)

There isn't an entire amount of different between the new GTS and the GT, but it is definitely faster if you need the extra little "boost" in performance gain for games such as Crysis.

[JokeDeity]

Thanks a bunch Sobe! I'm probably going to be looking for a new processor then, since I'd really like to get the Orange Box to work well on higher settings.

[H2O sobe]

Oh, well if it's just that that you want to run, even a 7600GT should run everything maxxed out without issues. My older rig running an S939 AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+ oc'd @ 3GHz, 2GB RAM, and 7600GT and played the Orange Box games all at max with HDR and don't think the FPS went below 40FPS at the lowest dips. Portal was the only one video intensive dependant on what you were doing :P

But yea, I can garauntee if you are just wanting for the Orange Box games, that an 8800GT/S paired with your current setup will be plenty.

If you need anymore help, or help in finding parts for a custom rig, or just anything in general, feel free to post and I'll reply as soon as I can.

[JokeDeity]

Glad to know, very helpful. And The Orange Box isn't the only thing I'm wanting to run better, but it is a pretty big collection of games that I'd like to enjoy more, it'd give me another reason to play HL2 if I could put the GFX way up :D.

I'm going to get heavy into finding a job within the next few months and I'll probably be working towards upgrading these two things, and thanks to you I now have a direction to head in. If I have questions, be sure I'll post 'em up.

[naturaL)]

i need to find out a good graphics card too . . for a decent price..

lemme know when you find out joke . (:

[JokeDeity]

It's likely that it won't be anytime too soon, but if you're still interested in knowing when I do, I'll be sure to update you Illusive.

[naturaL)]

for sureee.

cant pass up a good price/deal.

[H2O sobe]

Currently the best "bang for buck" are still the 8800GT and 8800GTS (G92).

However, if you are looking for something a little cheaper than the $200 mark, an 9600GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130334) would be a better choice pricewise if you can order one that isn't plagued with problems. Some people have success, and others have... Well... yea, failures.

For a more stable card, but at the cost of lower performance is an eVGA 8600GTS 256Mb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130084) or eVGA 8600GTS 512Mb (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130286).

What is your current video card? This will help with deciding what you should be upgrading to.

Also, if you are wondering why I don't mention ATi/AMD cards, it's not due to being biased, just the fact that ATi/AMD has been a failure in what they promise to deliver, where nVidia rises above.

[naturaL)]

nvidia ftw's

[Maxman]

If you've enough information as to mobo / motherboard and chipset then you may make an easy assessment as to installation / configuration of any supported hardware.

[TopHat]

Get an 8800GT, not XFX whatever you do.

Also if you were looking at the 9800s, and you can seriously afford one even though you are "potty break poor" then get a 9800. The GX2 to be safe, it's around 1.6x a 9800GTX. But a eVGA 8800GT Super clocked edition will do you well off, at a decent price too. So for now i'd say get the 8800GT, and let the GX2's price drop for about 2 months.

[Maxman]

What you'd say about XFX's 8800 Ultra?

[H2O sobe]

The point of having a 9800GX2? Another failure like the 7950GX2 nearly. Clocks better than the past mistake nVidia has made. But that still leaves no reason to grab one for the price of a full computer spec sheet. You'd be either ignorant or an enthusiast to purchase an 9800GX2.

As far as XFX goes, they are a great company, with a great double lifetime warranty that covers anyone if you happen to sell the card at a later time. However, I myself prefer eVGA. Also, for the 8800Ultra.... Why, it's just an overclocked 8800GTX... Don't be lazy and just do it yourself.

[Maxman]

Well I had once experienced 7950 GX2 Quad SLI on my XPS 720 machine and then finally replaced it with ASUS EN8800 GTX SLI. It's now worth a while...and never caused a little problem even.

[Nakashige H2O]

hey non of the 8800s or 9800 series card will fit in to tthat case there all too long

[Maxman]

Well XPS 700 series casings have enough room to adjust any class of 8800 / 9800 series adapter.

[TopHat]

What you'd say about XFX's 8800 Ultra?

I wouldn't get it just to be safe. A lot of XFX's 8 series graphics cards artifact.

[Nakashige H2O]

xps 700 dount have a micro atx motherboard anda hdd be hinded the pci e slot

[H2O sobe]

I wouldn't get it just to be safe. A lot of XFX's 8 series graphics cards artifact.

Not true. Either bad GPU memory or GPU core stress will cause this. XFX tend to pre-overclock their cards through stock. This will of course tend to cause artifacts if it's essentially unstable. XFX is a great brand, don't be swayed away from them due to a random card or bad batch of cards. You can always RMA the card.

[Maxman]

If you're not satisfied with XFX, you may try ASUS, e-VGA, MSI or any other reliable vendor of your choice.

[H2O Raiden]

eVGA is the best. Seriously.

[Maxman]

OH Yes...I've read many reviews on several technical forums in support of eVGA and their hardworking research personnel.

[TopHat]

OH Yes...I've read many reviews on several technical forums in support of eVGA and their hardworking research personnel.

I hope that's not in sarcasm quotes :P

The last I heard from someone who went to the XFX headquarters for help because of artifacts had to wait for 3 hours, and then got pushed out of the building by security, and was given back his graphics card without the crysis that game with it. So basically XFX stole his crysis and pushed him out of the building because they realized they couldn't fix it.

Go for eVGA, BFG, or ASUS.

[Maxman]

The last I heard from someone who went to the XFX headquarters for help because of artifacts had to wait for 3 hours, and then got pushed out of the building by security, and was given back his graphics card without the crysis that game with it. So basically XFX stole his crysis and pushed him out of the building because they realized they couldn't fix it.

Well our distinguished Manager what we can say about the above narrated story. It won't be case classified under the umbrella of derision or cynicism? This is up to you to formulate a sound foundation / jurisdiction...

Anyway, I'm still using a PC containing dual XFX 8800 Ultra Graphic Adapters and have never experienced any problem with Crysis, World in Conflict, Pro Street etc. either playing under Windows XP / Vista platform.

[H2O sobe]

XFX is not a bad company, but for RMA purposes... Don't go to their building. Just do it all online, the closer the building the sooner you will get your card ;) XFX is one of the top contendors at the moment. eVGA, XFX, and BFG Technologies are what I'd call the 3 top competitors for nVidia based cards.

XFX cards tend to generally be pre-overclocked like BFG Tech. cards, whereas with eVGA you can either get a "stock nvidia based clock speed" or an pre-overclocked(Nick'd Superclocked) version. I prefer the cheaper stock based, then up everything myself with ATITool, then you can see where things will start to artifact as well as slowly adjust your processor to match the bottleneck of cards.

[Nakashige H2O]

ati 3870 i just got one for a media center and sub par gaming

[H2O sobe]

The ATi Radeon 3870 is a great card, it truely is, however falls far below the "spec sheet" of what it SHOULD be capable of. Don't take it lightly though, still a great card, for gaming as well.

nVidia is just normally the better choice for bother hardware performance and drivers. ATi's lack of hardware capability and shitty driver programming is... bleh, lol. My main choice to steer away :P

Plus, AMD bought ATi, so I don't like either now :P nVidia was so gracious towards AMD and open to joining partnership, but AMD rejects and goes ATi, so lame.

[Maxman]

I think we can't underestimate AMD at a whole, as far as their aggressive research as to DDR4 compliant graphic adapters are concerned. If a competition still exists between nVidia and ATI, we may experience better performance, quality and productivity.

Well H2O sobe I want your suggestion / recommendation as to best available liquid cooling kit for my overclocked graphic adapters i.e. Dual XFX 8800 Ultra as I'm using DELL XPS 720 which already contains a cooling kit for overclocked processor along with 4GB Overclocked Corsair Dominator memory.

Soliciting your early response,

[H2O sobe]

Well, if you are in the market for an optimal cooling solution I'd suggest a VapoChill phase-change unit.

I haven't been too into water cooling or phase change units due to close work with a friend and seeing what happens if something goes wrong with a hose... Seems just a little bit of liquid on vid card will ruin it for good, lol.

But are you looking for entire setup or just GPU or CPU?

I've seen some good things from these two,
Swiftech H20-220-APEX-GT CPU Liquid Cooling Kits (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108076) - $199

Swiftech H20-220 Compact CPU Water Cooling Kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108105) - $139

Swiftech is a good brand in the water cooling industry.

[Nakashige H2O]

sobe right now in my gaming system tri sli with 9800 gtx quad core qx9770 and 8 gigs of memory

[H2O sobe]

You have a three-SLI capable motherboard and a single 9800GTX? Why not just grab 2 9800GTs? Or 3 8800GT/S. As for the Extreme Core2 you have.... Extremes are over-rated IMO, but very powerful indeed.
You seem to have an extraordinary gaming rig, very nice. I'd say I'd upgrade a bit myself, but as I'm currently in college and having to pay partly for this, books, dorm, etc. it's not helping my cause <_<

My trusty Socket939 AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+ oc'd @ 3GHz finally fried :P So I grabbed an Core2Duo E6750 and 4GB g.Skill RAM. I would've gone E8400, but it was at the time when they were extremely hard to find ANYWHERE... Everywhere was sold out, not a single place wasn't. And I needed a computer up and running for personal use and school work. Loving the change, even though I was an avid AMD fan before the Core2's were released :P

[TheFirstStrike]

A gaming rig with 8 gigs of memory...why? Vista 64 is not exactly gaming friendly, yet.

[Maxman]

Well Vista x64 Edition has some hardware compatibility issues and we hope to see the resolution after the release of Service Pack 1. Apart from it, to take full advantage of larger memory (i.e. 8GB), you may try / test more powerful and scalable Windows XP x64 Edition.

[H2O sobe]

As far as I know Service Pack 1 is already readily available and already implemented in newer Vista prebuilt computers. Though you will need to download it via Microsoft.com rather than automatic update. But you should still be able to get it through Windows Updates within Vista while connected to the internet.

[TheFirstStrike]

Actually, XP 64 is a joke compared Vista. If I had to choose I would, without hesitation, pick Vista. Compatibility is better on Vista then XP for 64, more support. But for gaming, 32 bit with 3 gigs is more then enough for now IMO.

But then again I was undecided between XP or Vista in the first place. I pushed myself into dual booting my game rig. I only use Vista for DX10 though and that is not much.
----Double Post Merged----
Yeah SP1 is out through Windows update as long as you install all the updates prior to it. There is also a compatibility list for the programs that are not friendly with SP1 and need to have a patch or be removed.

XP SP3 comes out this month though :)
*
o As of April 14 (Tax Day Eve), Microsoft began providing official support for Windows XP SP3.
o On April 21 (next Monday), SP3 will be released to OEMs, Volume License, Connnect, MSDN, and TechNet subscribers.
o On April 29, SP3 will be available to everyone else via Windows Update, Microsoft Update, or the Microsoft Download Center.
o Prefer to wait until Redmond forces you to get SP3? Automatic Updates via Windows Update/MS Update are scheduled to start June 10.

[Nakashige H2O]

i run 64 bit ultimate and do a ton of 3d rendering and programming and vertuization

[Maxman]

I've a dual boot at my personal PC running Windows XP along with Vista Ultimate. both operating systems are however 64Bit. I've played / tested the following titles on both platforms during last few weeks:

1. Supreme Commander & Forged Alliance
2. Crysis (with and without DX10)
3. Halo2 (with and without DX10)
4. Command & Conquer 3 Tiberium Wars & Kane's Wrath
5. Need for Speed Pro Street
6. Ghost Recon 2 Advanced Warfighter

If you're seriously looking for better performance and playability, Windows XP x64 Edition is exceptional than any class of Windows Vista.

A team of legacy enthusiasts are still working on DX10 for Windows XP and would soon publish their work on the internet.

And if you're a professional geek then try to grab an alpha / beta version of upcoming Windows 7 from some underground empire, you'd realise the difference among all the preceding platforms.

[H2O TankBusta]

XP x64 is really a joke. It's got major compatibility issues and is extremely buggy. It's like they just wrote the main kernel in 64-bit and just left it at that. 2k3 x64 and Vista x64 is a lot more stable (Probably cause they spent a lot more time on it ;)) From personal experience... XP x64 is no where close to exceptional.


And if you're a professional geek then try to grab an alpha / beta version of upcoming Windows 7 from some underground empire, you'd realise the difference among all the preceding platforms.

Where do I start with how wrong that is...

[Maxman]

Well... this is your personal viewpoint. Sadly speaking, you've faced / suffered several problem while using the instant product. But I still consider / regard it as best 'cause of performance and scalability and have never experienced a single predicament. I don't know if you're fully aware about testing 3DMark Vantage on both Windows XP and Vista Platforms.

Pardon me if you're unable to understand my statement as to Windows 7...

[Im Lord Voldemort]

what are you trying to do with the new card? just play games, watch videos ???

r u from northstar hs?

[Maxman]

Well brother the Sig appears at the bottom of your instant post violates the terms & conditions of PMS | H2O Clan Forums...Please read the Rules carefully.

[TheFirstStrike]

Well... this is your personal viewpoint. Sadly speaking, you've faced / suffered several problem while using the instant product. But I still consider / regard it as best 'cause of performance and scalability and have never experienced a single predicament. I don't know if you're fully aware about testing 3DMark Vantage on both Windows XP and Vista Platforms.

Pardon me if you're unable to understand my statement as to Windows 7...

I have heard nothing but bad reviews on XP 64. MS supports Vista 64 far more. IMO, XP 64 was a failure.


And Windows 7, sounds to me like you were suggesting a pirated version. That is wrong in so many ways.

[H2O sobe]

mmm, this can honestly be taken many ways. WindowsXP 64-bit revision was mostly a "test", whereas Vista's 64-bit is more of a defined version. XP 64 was more or less a true failure, which can be true, however, it DID do the essentials perfectly fine for what it was needed for. Thus, not a complete failure, just a stepping stone for Microsoft to further develop on. So I wouldn't really call it the best, but then again, I wouldn't call it a failure. It was something as a basis for future OS versions.

[Nakashige H2O]

do u guys know what windows 7 codename is? and xp 64 bit fails at everything

[Maxman]

Vienna is the codename of first official beta of Windows 7...
----Double Post Merged----
And Windows 7, sounds to me like you were suggesting a pirated version. That is wrong in so many ways.

How does it make sense if someone would support / promote the pirated version which is already under development.

Vienna is the code name reserved for first official beta. Please read the thread titled as Windows XP / Vista Performance Comparison as posted inside Tech Forums.